Night worker-mandatory training course at 1pm.

[Patienceisntvirtuous]

AIBU to be a bit annoyed about it? Would you be?

I work nights, finish at 7 am.

Work have put me (and others I work alongside) on this course, 1pm until 5pm.
I am going to be absolutely shattered. I'd normally be asleep until at least 2pm.
It also takes up the day really (which is usually my day off) and I'll possibly need to nap afterwards to be of any use whatsoever-and during the course my concentration isn't going to be great. I am normally quite engaging and interactive in learning but I think I'll just sit there trying to blend in and not fall asleep.
There's 3 night workers on it and about 20 day shift workers from the same organisation.

We are to be paid for it, but there's no way around it we have to attend.

It's from home so that's something I suppose. Just a rant really as there's not much can be done.

I'd be much happier had they considered us and set it for later in the afternoon! Four hours is a long time too, was it for a couple of hours I'd be much more happy!I just feel It's inconsiderate, and night workers are quite often subject to marginalisation in the workplace IME so that's a factor.

If its from home, and you'd be awake anyway I'd cheat. Put it on, turn of your mike and video and have it on in the background. Anything important you'll figure out anyway or you can ask a day colleague to give you highlights or for the slides/handout.

When I worked nights people did this all the time. They forgot about us, didn't consider us. It's incredibly frustrating as like you say, you're usually more tired than them anyway. I raised it every time. They got sick of hearing it.

Sorry I should have added, we absolutely HAVE to have our cameras on :(

I assume those who are day shift workers are missing part of their shift. I would ask if you could miss part of your night shift, so can catch up on sleep

That is a good point! I didn't think of that

Can't you ask to do it on a day off - one you didn't work the night before/that morning of? Seems like a better compromise than expecting you back 'at work' a few hours later.

That would be much better. It is on my day off, but when I'd haev worked the previous night (well finished that morning strictly speaking).

Have you raised this? In that it’s outside your working hours, and will severely impair your ability to fulfill your role?

even if they started at say 8am it wouldn’t be as bad!

scale this up, it needs to be rethought

If it’s on your day off too… no. That’s not going to work.

if it’s mandatory then it needs to accommodate all workers

If it's outside your contracted hours I don't think they can make you attend.

I’m not sure that’s even legal, working time directive mumble mumble, something like that?!

Aren't they supposed to give you a minimum of 11 hours between shifts? Surely this counts as a shift.

Well it will always be OPs day off...cos she doesn't work days.....it happens all the time in the NHS .....if the training is mandatory is has to be done.....trainers won't work nights ....so OP will just have to do it

@mzhz I guess it won't, because I am not working the night of the course, but will be tired from the night before.
I would prefer it to begin at 0800 actually, I could power through then!

@fairylightsandwaxmelts that is a point, but I'll bet if I were to look at my contract it'll have one of those disclaimers in it 'we can make you do what wewant' sort of thing.

@onlyclothes @girafferaffle you both make good points. It should count as a shift, albeit a short one. I am going to look at that.

@mrsterrypratchett that's exactly how I feel. We somehow matter less-even though in my role, our work is actually quite a bit harder/carrying more hardship.

I'd ask to leave early the night before to get some sleep. Maybe some of the day shift could come in an hour or two earlier to cover?

The mandatory training should be included in shift time or time deducting from usual shift imo

They should schedule a night/evening course for the nightshift teams - trainers will do it if you pay them.

Effectively they are asking you to come off a night shift and do a day shift with inadequate rest time. If they want/have to hold it during the daytime then they should do whatever they do with regards to rest for swapping staff from nights to days.

Can they not record the session so that you can do the training when it's not your equivalent of the middle of the night?

I would have thought if it's important but it turned out that they made the nightshift workers do it when they were falling asleep, and something later went wrong, they lay themselves open to being sued, as it's reasonably foreseeable that people won't be able to take it all on board under those circumstances.

It's a bit like asking the rest of us to come back to work for training from 10pm-2am, so no you're not unreasonable to be annoyed.

Are you a trade union member? If so they can advise.

This definitely doesn't seem fair.

This has happened to me, also NHS, I refused to do it, I stated it was like someone on a day shift having to get up at 1am! They just told me to do it the next time round. In the end I did it during my annual leave but got paid for it.
I agree night workers get forgotten.

If we're night shift & have a training course our shift gets changed so the course is your shift for that day.

If the course was a Tues, we'd do a half shift on the Monday (1800 to 2200) the course would be your Tues shift & Wed you're back to night shift as usual.

Patienceisntvirtuous I’m a night worker and I would point blank refuse to do this, it’s not on, whether it’s your night off or not. Our managers wouldn’t even think to do anything like this to start of with.

Another point to make is that if this training is important then you need to be able to take it in. Either not that important (could it be recorded and have a day when you can watch during night shift) or important that you attend and may ask questions in which they need to make proper arrangements for shorter shifts or to do a session at night as well.

in either case your shift or part of it should be covered in the same way that they have to find cover for the day shift.

They are out of order.
as a minimum you should have an 11 hour rest break after any shift.
The Trust I work for also suggests 48 hours recovery before rostering day duty after night duty but this is often missed.
I’d be tempted to enquire if an alternative course could be arranged from 3am - 7am. Cos that what is the equivalent of what they are asking you to do!
So staff on the day late shift would finish at 9pm, but be expected to return at 3am. Train till 7am and then back on late shift at 1pm. See how ludicrous that sounds when we start expecting day people to wake in the middle of the night to come in and do training?!

also where I work staff are required to work at least 4 weeks of days per year and much of their training can be arranged when they are on days…