Night worker-mandatory training course at 1pm.

[Patienceisntvirtuous]

AIBU to be a bit annoyed about it? Would you be?

I work nights, finish at 7 am.

Work have put me (and others I work alongside) on this course, 1pm until 5pm.
I am going to be absolutely shattered. I'd normally be asleep until at least 2pm.
It also takes up the day really (which is usually my day off) and I'll possibly need to nap afterwards to be of any use whatsoever-and during the course my concentration isn't going to be great. I am normally quite engaging and interactive in learning but I think I'll just sit there trying to blend in and not fall asleep.
There's 3 night workers on it and about 20 day shift workers from the same organisation.

We are to be paid for it, but there's no way around it we have to attend.

It's from home so that's something I suppose. Just a rant really as there's not much can be done.

I'd be much happier had they considered us and set it for later in the afternoon! Four hours is a long time too, was it for a couple of hours I'd be much more happy!I just feel It's inconsiderate, and night workers are quite often subject to marginalisation in the workplace IME so that's a factor.

It’s like getting up in the middle of the night.
imagine going to bed at 9pm and getting up to do a course at 1in the morning !
Hey ! No big deal is it ?( That’s how do many people treat it )

Crazy but people just don’t consider night workers.

I’d put it on and go for a nap. You’ll probably get it all emailed as a summary anyway.

it’s so inconsiderate.

I don’t do nights now but I’ve done my fair share of them to know you’re a zombie for several days at the best of times, never mind having to do a course too !

I’ve worked nights for 4 years now. If people set meetings during the day time I just don’t show up. They’ve eventually gotten the message!

It’s crazy how inconsiderate people are though, especially when it’s people who should know better (managers who do the rota for example!). Lots of my colleagues stayed awake after doing a nightshift to reset themselves and sleep in the evening, but that isn’t feasible for people with more than 1 shift - others assumed that’s what we all did though

Sounds like you need to contact your local union, that course counts as work, so should be having 11 hours before being back at work, I'd refuse and say its unsafe, if it's like the companies I have worked before they will probs try disipline you, but any tribunal would rip then apart for having such little rest before starting a training course, they should at the very minimum be giving you the previous night off paid for beforehand so you can get some sleep

I would refuse pointblank

Can't they just record the training and you watch it at a time convenient to you.

Nope, you can’t do that, it’s illegal. You’d need to finish at 2am latest to get your minimum 11 hour rest break in.

Well it will always be OPs day off...cos she doesn't work days.....it happens all the time in the NHS .....if the training is mandatory is has to be done.....trainers won't work nights ....so OP will just have to do it

What a load of nonsense @kitcat15

Would you get up and go to training from 1am to 4am if your workplace insisted it was mandatory and that's when the trainer worked?

I doubt it very much.

So why should night shift workers be expected to do the equivalent? It's not their fault the trainers only work days - so the workplace should either arranging for training to happen at night, or arrange for it to be recorded so that night shift workers can do it during shift.

@kitcat15

Well it will always be OPs day off...cos she doesn't work days.....it happens all the time in the NHS .....if the training is mandatory is has to be done.....trainers won't work nights ....so OP will just have to do it

Then training should be at 8/9AM, as the shifts cross over, not the middle of the day.

Hi OP. That is really poor from them. Assuming you are full time nights and not on a shift pattern as a doctor or something, I think this is an instance when a straight "No, I'm not doing that" is called for. Any kind of disciplinary action would be laughed out of court. If the employer wants you to do this course they need to make it possible for you. This is the equivalent of my 9-5 employer demanding I do a "compulsory" course at 2am. The second word in the proper response is "off", my choice of first word would contain 4 letters.

I refuse. Mandatory or not I have to sleep.
Sometimes they try to swap our shifts so we have a night off the night before

I work nights and wouldn’t be expected to do this.

Can you ask to finish a few hours earlier?

If you are required in work from 1pm you will need to end your shift at 2am the previous night in order to have the statutory minimum 11 hour break between shifts. Having finished at 5pm you will then not be available for work until 4am next morning. If that's how they want to use your time then you probably need to go along with it but don't waive your right to reasonable non-working times between work periods. This training is work.

^^ this

This course is apparently very interactive thus can't be done without us being physically present.

I'm a therapist. It's a course on a 'new' (to us) personality theory they're teaching us and involves us partaking, so no option to record or for me to just turn my camera off and doze :(

I've spoken to ACAS now. They agreed with PPs who've said about the 11 hour minimum break. There's a way they could get around it and that is by giving us four hours back 'rest' by shortening a shift. They should do this the night before, thus allowing us to finish early and sleep, but they don't have to apparently, they could just pick a random shift to shorten if they want.

To answer some questions yes I am a permanent night worker, and yes the course could have been booked for something like 4pm-8pm, not so unsociable hours, day staff would just have to be paid for the hours they wouldn't normally be there, and I am sure trainers would agree to it if it was arranged in advance. I think they're just assuming I (we) will agree to it. I'll bet it isn't isolated either. I've only been at this company about 9 months.

I am in a Union but I will try to resolve 'in house' first just to not be 'that person'.

@saitama good idea!

@onepieceoflollipop it sounds laughable doesn't it! Making a 9-5 worker log on in the middle of the night because if, say most of the workforce for that employer worked nights, that would be the most convenient time-they'd get guffawed at!

I am going to speak to my line manager first and foremost and ask when we are getting the 'rest time' to counteract what we'll lose for this course and see what's said. I don't know if my manager knows this is illegal, or is just hoping we don't!

Funny thing is, everyone in the company praises us for doing nights, as a therapist we get a lot of high risk calls etc, people who need immediate intervention, people who's mental health is very poor. It's much harder than days. Yet they'll do this. Grr.

Thanks so much all of you who've responded :)

trainers need to do night shifts to accommodate your training needs.

Shortening a random shift sounds mad! If this is as important as it sounds they really need to sort this so you have a chance of taking the information in.

I’ve done it loads of times actually….worked nights for 15 years as a nurse ( NHS) when the kids were young….training is never going to happen at night

Of course you can have the training in the day, just a shame that your laptop/ phone has developed a fault on the day or the camera has stopped working................😉

If it is NHS nothing has changed. Not only did we have to attend lectures, we had to do exams in the middle of night duty. It isn't fair IMO.

Have you tried contacting ACAS for advice?
Or your union, if you have one.