Making up a reference - will it go against me in future applications?

[curiousnut]

I've recently left a long relationship and I really desperately need to find work or i won't be able to pay bills on the amount of UC I am getting. I have a disability so that narrows down the work I can actually do.

I've been applying but not getting anywhere since I have no recent work experience. Last time I worked was many years ago.

A job has come up which is absolutely perfect for me and which I'd be so so happy to work in.

My sister says I should put her down as a reference and say I was her nanny.

I am tempted to do that. I know I can do the job as I am qualified for it and it is all DBS checked and everything.

My concern is that these jobs don't come up often and if they find out, then would it go against me when applying for the same company in future?? How likely are they to find out??

Because if so, I might not risk it. I am going to try get voluntary work to get a reference but from experience, this takes a while before they are willing to give a reference, if at all. I really need to get work before then.

My issue is - I can do the jobs - I just have no proof I can. I'm a mid 30s woman with no work history or references

I wouldn't. If you get caught out you would be dismissed and find it difficult to get another job. Instead, if you are offered the job be honest, give the details of the 2008 job, and if they can't provide a reference offer another character reference.

What Saskia said just now. Good luck!

* Honestly I know you think you would ideal but I mean this gently. If you havent worked since 2008 then how on earth would you know you are the best applicant. If there is a DBS check that makes it even more important to be honest.*

^I agree

@DeyHuggee

No I wouldn't, often references confirm the date and job title with the employer- your sister going on the record fabricating this is a no no. I know its tempting but personally I wouldn't, even if you get the job it's a reason for dismissal once in post, it's not worth it. Some places even check with HRMC, if it's a government job that's much more likely. I'd email the recruiter and be honest and ask if you can supply a second character reference, I have shortlisted and interviewed lots of people and have accepted this before.

Are you sure they check with hmrc, I wouldn’t have thought hmrc would give that info out to any random person calling up? I can’t even see them giving it to another government department to be honest.

I've done it twice. Once they contacted my friend and she answered questions as if she had been my boss and the second time they didn't follow up the reference. It was a long time ago now and helped me transition from factory work to working in an office. I don't regret it at all. I don't know how they would find out? My friend said it was easy to answer the questions and she told them about me, she also knew I was more than capable of doing the job.

@Morph22010 yes but they have to ask for permission during the pre employment checks. If they don't then no they don't check.

Don't do it. Someone who worked for me put a relative as her reference and then tried to lie about it when challenged - I had to sack her. I found out they were related when she added me on social media

[quote DeyHuggee]@Morph22010 yes but they have to ask for permission during the pre employment checks. If they don't then no they don't check.[/quote]
I work in tax so deal with hmrc a lot but I’ve not come across this before as it would be more of an hr thing, however knowing how difficult it is to get anything out of hmrc and that it takes them over 6 months to answer a letter I am amazed that they must have a whole department confirming where people used to work. How long do they take to reply?

This is a criminal offence under the Fraud Act 2006 - fraud by false representation (formerly known as obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception and yes it does include obtaining employment). The maximum sentence is 10 years plus a fine.

In involving your sister you would also both be conspiring to commit a criminal offence.

It would also be gross misconduct and if your employer found out they would be entitled to dismiss you summarily.

Really, do not do this. You may well think you won’t get found out but the risk if you do is too great. Getting a job when you’ve been sacked for gross misconduct is hard and with a criminal offence for an offence of dishonesty is a lot harder. There are many, many jobs that you will never be able to get if you have been convicted of dishonesty.

@Morph22010 as an individual you can request your employment history from them (the past 5 years) and it takes 10 working days from request to receiving it through the post. I imagine the same or similar? I suspect they might just do a set percentage rather than all, but it's worth bearing it in mind if applying for a job in the civil service etc and definitely if it appears in the pre employment checks.

Just tell them you will have to get personal referees not work ones.

Lying and deceit are massive issues and that will get you into trouble. If you did give false references, and I found out, you’d be dismissed for gross misconduct where I work.

Better to have a transparent discussion about what the references are for and how you can demonstrate your work history than to lie.

The issue you will have is that as a nanny you would be dbs checked therefore when it comes to the job doing a their own dbs check you will be required to give your previous dbs number from the nanny 'job'.

@Greyarea12

The issue you will have is that as a nanny you would be dbs checked therefore when it comes to the job doing a their own dbs check you will be required to give your previous dbs number from the nanny 'job'.

An employer of a nanny is entitled to get a DBS check done on them if they want, but they're not legally obliged to do so. Who would DBS check their sister? I don't think it would really be odd to say your sister didn't bother with one as she trusted you

I think you'd be so anxious and nervous about this hanging over you forever OP.

@curiousnut

I just don't know what to do. Thanks everyone for all the responses.

It's the absolutely most perfect job for me and I can definitely do the job, but I get the feeling this particular post doesn't come up very often and so that tempts me to lie to have a better chance, but on the other hand if caught I couldn't get one of these rare-ish posts with the same company in the future.

Sounds like you are not the perfect person for them rather than other way round!

Lying from the vet go won't serve you well

Don’t do it. You’ll have to watch what you say forever - and one day you’ll slip up. It’s not worth living like that.

I wouldn't. If it was a friend who you might believably have worked for in a professional capacity then you might be able to pass it off, but it will almost certainly take very little research to uncover that this 'employer' is actually your sister and 'nanny' is not like being in a family business doing professional work it would be babysitting your nieces/nephews. You are highly likely to be caught and it will look dishonest and imo worse than simply being up front about having been doing things other than employment for a few years.

Don’t do it. For a position that didn’t require a DBS and was low level I’d be more inclined to encourage you to chance it but not for something that clearly needs honesty as a requirement for the job.

Phone the HR department and ask their advice. If you can provide basic contact details for your last employer they can have a go at obtaining proof of employment dates but it would be ideal to gather character references to offer if you can.

@Pizzandchips

I am/would be in a similar situation. I've only had one job, I ws mde redundant and the site closed, so doesn't exist anymore /no one to contact for a reference. I was pregnant at the time so I used my redundancy money to become a sahm and have been for 8 years now. I have no one at all I can put down as a reference. I'm hopefully going to return to work soon and I hope this won't go against me.

Go and do some baby sitting/pet sitting for a friend or neighbour with a respectable job title who is self-employed/runs their own business.

They can write you a truthful reference even if you only do the sitting a couple of times and they don't pay you. Obviously they won't say you did the specific thing twice.

If you are lying about a reference, presumably you are also lying about your work history? That’s not a good situation. Although, I can see how it would be tempting.

I had two low-level/entry job offers at the start of the year.

DBS job requirement - allowed for character reference alongside just 1 employer reference.

Non-DBS checking job - wanted two employer references and it was one of the rare times I had to explain how a furlough fraud employer from recent times would probably never reply to their insisted reference request for good reasons to the point I was tempted to go for the DBS checking one as it seemed the far easiest option!

(Both companies advertise pretty much 10 months out of 12 yearly, after I got both positions, I remember clearing out my inbox I'd let build-up, and both names kept popping up in the job notifications emails over the years rather frequently as I was deleting which I kind of noted as a little alarming when seen like that.)

HRMC do not give anything out beyond public information. I should know I've given up hope of the fraudulent employer being brought to justice/doing the right thing as under reasons of GDPR they have protection.

Without knowing the actual role, I think you may be overthinking the 'rarity' of the job these days - you don't know HR/Hiring Manager could also very well change in the future. Anything can go on.