Making up a reference - will it go against me in future applications?

[curiousnut]

I've recently left a long relationship and I really desperately need to find work or i won't be able to pay bills on the amount of UC I am getting. I have a disability so that narrows down the work I can actually do.

I've been applying but not getting anywhere since I have no recent work experience. Last time I worked was many years ago.

A job has come up which is absolutely perfect for me and which I'd be so so happy to work in.

My sister says I should put her down as a reference and say I was her nanny.

I am tempted to do that. I know I can do the job as I am qualified for it and it is all DBS checked and everything.

My concern is that these jobs don't come up often and if they find out, then would it go against me when applying for the same company in future?? How likely are they to find out??

Because if so, I might not risk it. I am going to try get voluntary work to get a reference but from experience, this takes a while before they are willing to give a reference, if at all. I really need to get work before then.

My issue is - I can do the jobs - I just have no proof I can. I'm a mid 30s woman with no work history or references

How would employers check with HMRC? People's tax records (and salaries) are private in the UK. They wouldn't be allowed to do that. A DBS check also has no bearing on anything as it's simply a check on police records to prove you haven't anything is concern. It's not related to any employment. If you do so it though, OP, I would say that you ceased being a nanny a few months ago and be honest about being out of work currently, as they would otherwise expect a P45 from your employer rather than the DSS.

If you do this, say part time, as they can check your tax and NI paid when you start as you won’t have paid any. When I was made redundant once, we were told you submit our CV’s to HR, who would look at them and recommend changes, most of these were changing dates of jobs and qualifications.

I would be tempted to pick someone I'm not related to. However if you've babysat for herald you have a different last name then why not.

Don't lie about references. If /when you get found out that will follow you for a long time. Be honest about your experience and if you can summon up enough confidence and enthusiasm you will find a job somewhere

@JurasicPerks

2008 is fine. Put it down. A friend was made redundant after 25 years with the company. She used her 2 previous places of work - so one was from a company she left a quarter of a century ago.

You absolutely won't get the job if you don't apply, and references are usually taken after they offer you the job. So they would check them out after they know they want to employ you.

I went for a job and my last employer I left in 2010. She was no longer allowed to give a reference as it had been too long. I was self employed in the meantime. For roles within childcare/education you must have a work reference.

I have done a lot of interviewing and if you put down you have done a job you have never done it will be blindingly obvious at interview when they ask you questions about it.

Lots of companies don't respond to reference requests, so just put your last one down. If they don't respond, that's not your problem - and employers know this is a thing - but at least you won't be lying.

It depends on the kind of job - will you be looking after children or vulnerable people? If so, don't lie!

If it's just something like basic admin in a non-sensitive capacity you could risk it. Better not to, but if you're not getting anywhere with applications then it might get you a foot in the door.

Why haven't you worked in a long time, and what has changed that means you're now able to?

How would they find out?
Does your sister have a different last name?

It's easy to blag but you just need to be smart about it.

Doesn't even have to be nanny, it could be clerical stuff you did for her.

I gave a reference for my sister. She had worked for me in a professional capacity and our last names are different but I was still upfront and disclosed that she was my sister as well. Be squeaky clean if you can.

I know of someone who faked a reference, was found out and struck off from his professional organisation.

When I went back to work after years away/self employment I asked my neighbour (who I’d known for 25 years) for a character reference. He had never employed or worked with me but had a senior industry job and was able to comment credibly on my abilities.

If the company wants you they will just need to check you’re not an axe murderer.

I had an agency I worked for in 2010 deny all knowledge of me in 2019 - they only kept records for 7 years so I'd presumably been purged. I was all prepared to prove it with tax records but fortunately my new employer was happy to accept an alternative.

I'd suggest putting the 2008 one down and in the meantime creating an HMRC login so you can prove you worked there for when they can't get a reference. And start volunteering if you can - a shift a week in a charity shop for example will at least mean someone can confirm you show up on time and don't help yourself to the till which is more than an employer would know about you otherwise (sorry, I'm sure you're lovely!). Even if it's too soon for this job, you'll have it up your sleeve for the next one.

If you get caught making something up then I think it's fair to assume they will remember you and definitely won't consider you in future. I wouldn't risk it.

Have you done child minding for anyone or occasional after school care or anything like that?

I gave a friend a reference as she provided childcare for me an age ago. She was so amazing we kept in contact and became friends.

She’s been doing her job now for a few years no problems.

Showing my age now, didn't Sion Jenkins ALSO get charged and convicted of securing his teaching position by deception (ie, concocting a bogus CV)?

Highly unlikely to happen to OP, but there is precedent...

With the ability to check social media these days, I wouldn't chance it.

To be honest I would never have chanced it. The worry about getting caught (would that ever totally go away?) would be too much stress for me to handle.

Honestly I know you think you would ideal but I mean this gently. If you havent worked since 2008 then how on earth would you know you are the best applicant. If there is a DBS check that makes it even more important to be honest.

Just put your last employment down. You will get the chance to explain why you haven't got a more recent work ref at the interview. They will make up their minds about you from how you are in person. I wouldn't risk lying.

@Fireyflies

How would employers check with HMRC? People's tax records (and salaries) are private in the UK. They wouldn't be allowed to do that. A DBS check also has no bearing on anything as it's simply a check on police records to prove you haven't anything is concern. It's not related to any employment. If you do so it though, OP, I would say that you ceased being a nanny a few months ago and be honest about being out of work currently, as they would otherwise expect a P45 from your employer rather than the DSS.

A lot of government jobs do this as part of their pre employment checks, I think you give permission though and I suspect if you don't they'd just say you hadn't satisfactorily completed the checks. I wouldn't imagine a private business would be able to do the same legally or have the inclination to necessarily, but it's usually obvious if someone fabricates their employment history.

@Fireyflies

How would employers check with HMRC? People's tax records (and salaries) are private in the UK. They wouldn't be allowed to do that. A DBS check also has no bearing on anything as it's simply a check on police records to prove you haven't anything is concern. It's not related to any employment. If you do so it though, OP, I would say that you ceased being a nanny a few months ago and be honest about being out of work currently, as they would otherwise expect a P45 from your employer rather than the DSS.

For my current job and my previous job, I signed a consent form that let them contact HMRC. If consent is given, they absolutely can do that. A refusal to sign the consent would have meant not getting the job.

Have you done any work experience in the meantime? Supported at church playgroup? Helped on a school trip? Helped (tutored?) a friend’s child before an exam? Babysat? If so, I’d ask someone linked to one of those for a genuine reference, even if it is literally just for a day’s work.

If you claimed benefits it could all be cross referenced and look like you were illegally working, be very careful

I’m in HR and collect references for new starts.

There’s no mechanism for me to check someone’s tax record before they start, which is when I’m contacting their referees.

As long as I get speaking to the person who was nominated by the new staff member, and they don’t give any red flags which cause me to do more digging (mismatched dates, different job title etc) then that’s it.

I’m in HR, not DC-12. Many posters here are vastly overestimating HR’s ability (and willingness) to go OTT on background checks for what I imagine is probably a junior position.

@TerribleCustomerCervix

I’m in HR and collect references for new starts.

There’s no mechanism for me to check someone’s tax record before they start, which is when I’m contacting their referees.

As long as I get speaking to the person who was nominated by the new staff member, and they don’t give any red flags which cause me to do more digging (mismatched dates, different job title etc) then that’s it.

I’m in HR, not DC-12. Many posters here are vastly overestimating HR’s ability (and willingness) to go OTT on background checks for what I imagine is probably a junior position.

If you're a private company then true, many other jobs though do quite thorough pre employment checks, so depends what OP is applying for.

I just don't know what to do. Thanks everyone for all the responses.

It's the absolutely most perfect job for me and I can definitely do the job, but I get the feeling this particular post doesn't come up very often and so that tempts me to lie to have a better chance, but on the other hand if caught I couldn't get one of these rare-ish posts with the same company in the future.

Seriously give your last job, then give a personal/character reference.

Obtain evidence via HMRC of your dates of employment ready for when your former employer says they don't hold records so far back and can't confirm your employment.

If you have held any position of authority/responsibility (helping at school or kids group, school governor, committee member anything) get an additional reference from that and list it.

I am/would be in a similar situation. I've only had one job, I ws mde redundant and the site closed, so doesn't exist anymore /no one to contact for a reference. I was pregnant at the time so I used my redundancy money to become a sahm and have been for 8 years now. I have no one at all I can put down as a reference. I'm hopefully going to return to work soon and I hope this won't go against me.