lighthearted, are you middle class?

[mrziggycoco]

How do you define classes, personally, and are what class are you?

I read a book once that said if you are a professional (in one of the professions; teaching/doctor/engineer/surgeon/lawyer) you are middle class.

Similarly if you are a blue collar worker (you have a uniform for work) this makes you working class.

I wonder if being socially housed makes one automatically working class?

Thoughts? Just for fun.

@starlingdarling I don't think class can be a mobile thing. So a young person doing their LPC while doing a part time job and struggling to pay London rent is working class? Might even be from a comfortable family but family doesn't help. And then in a few years time when said young graduate has more money and buys his or her apartment and goes on overseas holidays, he is suddenly middle class?

I had no money when I first graduated and got married but we have a bit more money now.

My husband earns 19k, I don't work but we claim benefits while we have 4 kids and I care for my autistic daughter. I've got 4 kids by 3 men. I'm probably scum of the earth by MN standards.

@SweetPeaGirl

I always find it interesting how desperate some people with very middle class lifestyles are to still be considered working class. Your grandad may have worked down the pit, but you're a university educated professional with a detached house, two cars, and a foreign holiday at least once a year.

It's OK to have done well for yourself and be 'upwardly mobile'. Let it go.

You could be describing me there, except it was my dad, and pretty much all my other male relatives who worked down t'pit.

But anyone with a middle class upbringing meeting me in person will spot straight away that I'm not 'one of them', despite my education (a first in a STEM subject, multiple professional qualifications and being a holding chartered status in my profession) and traditionally MC interests.

The regional accent and the fact that I've spent a good part of the weekend sitting in the front garden (quietly!) drinking lager straight from the can will probably give it away for a start.

@Thereisnolight

A surgeon is a doctor

Medicine and surgery are different disciplines and different jobs.

@Thereisnolight

I’ve always wanted to be unnecessarily mean on mumsnet and here was my chance! Sorry OP!

Where were you mean?

@AngelaRayner4PM

I don't know. I have read plenty of books. Doesn't make me middle class. I have no money, work a working class job and live in social housing. I think those things are bigger markers than what books I read.

What? I just mentioned a book that had a description in.

I think the people on here who seem desperate to be seen as working class are actually desperate for someone to correct them and reassure them they are definitely middle class.

Has anyone read the Harry Wallop book on class?

@AngelaRayner4PM

I don't know. I have read plenty of books. Doesn't make me middle class. I have no money, work a working class job and live in social housing. I think those things are bigger markers than what books I read.

Yes, my point was that it's a ridiculous question and entirely arbitrary.

If you work for a living your working class ( the clue is in the name)
If you send your children to private school or could do but choose not too your middle class.
Titled people are the upper class.
If your only source of income is from the state your the underclass, unless your a pensioner, in which case you remain in the class you were before you retired.

Why is there someone who jumps on the first page and says ‘why is MN so obsessed with class’. It’s so predictable. What do you hope to get out of this? Why don’t you scroll by?

Thanks @sst1234 thread police but why don’t you take your own advice and scroll on by if a comment isn’t relevant to you?

I don't think drinking lager from a can makes you working class

@Springhassprung86

Your post is very contradictory. I work for the NHS, I am better paid than a teacher but I do wear a uniform. Also live in social housing. DHs wages are shit and we have kids, with the cost of living rising we are on the bones of our arse financially. There you go, now you know. “Just for fun”. So much fun. 🖕🏻

I gave two examples of what middle class has been defined as by others. One was from a book, the other was a pervasive view some 20 years ago.

This is why my first question was; what defines middle class?

I'll admit to be a total Hyacinth Bucket teetering precariously on the upper working class/lower middle class borderline. Desperate to been seen as the latter not the former.

@sst1234

Being working class is fashionable, donchano? You can just tell by the posters protesting how working class they are. The way class works is that nobody wants to be working class in resolute, but everyone wants to wear it like a badge of honour. Because it shows they are salt of the earth types, better than others. Superiority complex in reverse.

Yes!! And they would be horrified to be thought of as middle class as it paints them, in their mind, as an oppressor.

@SynchOrSwim

I think the people on here who seem desperate to be seen as working class are actually desperate for someone to correct them and reassure them they are definitely middle class.

I think a lot of it depends on your original upbringing. Although I have some middle class trappings (own home, privately educated children) I am working class and I always felt it when my children were at school. I could just tell the ‘real’ middle class mums, the ones brought up mc. They weren’t horrible or anything, it’s just a vibe. I was brought up on a council estate and my dad was a blue collar worker, we watched ITV more than the BBC, The Two Ronnies rather than Morcambe & Wise, we never watched the Queen’s speech on Christmas Day and lots of other little things that all added to being working class in the 60s/70s. It stays with you no matter how you do in the future.

@Laiste

My dad used to say:

If you have to get up and work for your money you're working class.

If you're rich enough that you don't have to work you're middle class.

If you're born or married into a title (no matter what's in your bank) you're upper class.

and it works for me.

It makes sense. What is one in the "middle" of? It's the situation, like you say, it's the necessity to have to work and also living paycheque to paycheque. But then many wealthy people do as their lifestyle goes through the roof.

I just think it's interesting how people define it.

People with middle class interests, professions, income, and general social standing (e.g. good credit scores, etc.) trying to pretend they are not middle class, are all a bit pathetic, quite frankly.
Ever heard of social mobility? You're not class traitors or impostors, for fuck's sake. You've outgrown your roots. So what? Good job you.

Middle-class hatred just drags this country down. Healthy economies have a large middle class. Unhealthy economies have a large rich/poor gap. So which group should you aspire to be part of? Neither too rich (obscenely disconnected from reality) nor too poor (lacking opportunities and sometimes even bare necessities), just right.

You are livng a middle class life now whatever you did as a kid

They once said on a comedy panel show that if you think John Lewis is expensive, you're working class, if you think it's a normal shop selling normal things, you're middle class and if you own John Lewis then you're upper class, but I know that the workers own some or all of the company, so it does fall down there somewhat.

@Momicrone

Somebody upthread said they'd hit someone for calling them middle class - bonkers!

What class are you when you attack people?

The obsession with class in the U.K. is normally found in conversations with white people in my opinion. I only hear this conversation (actually not that frequent in real life) when with my white peers. Mostly I see it here and wonder why it’s such a preoccupation with many on MN.

Also I could claim I am middle class but surely it is how others see you that defines your social class? Example: a couple who are both in professional jobs/decent money but rent in social housing. They may see themselves as middle class with their education/professions but other people may see them as working class?

Other races in the U.K. no matter how socially mobile they have been able to move up, do not talk about class. And if they do, they tend to wear their educational achievements as the success barometer despite where they are in life (renting/no job etc).

I think I prefer the American way in terms of how they define class. As long as you are rich (could be a rapper or a politician) you are middle/upper class. They do not really go by behaviour and it is more about the things you have.

In my home country, the fatter you are, the richer/wealthier you are (fat is wealth/good) so you would be middle class despite what your bank balance is saying. It’s less common now this assumption but it definitely used to happen.

I don’t like the U.K. class clarification because there isn’t one that is universally agreed on. It’s far too complicated/smokes and mirrors.

Both my parents are privately (boarding school) educated. Siblings and I all educated to Masters degrees, but it is only a few of us that are home owners. Most of us have professional/ordinary jobs. Nobody is cash rich and money is often a worry for some in my family.

@Furrbabymama87

My husband earns 19k, I don't work but we claim benefits while we have 4 kids and I care for my autistic daughter. I've got 4 kids by 3 men. I'm probably scum of the earth by MN standards.

That's a lot to contend with. Hats off to you.

@mrziggycoco I would argue Boris Johnson has to work as he has to support X number of children including two young ones. And I don't think Carrie's income can support a nanny and 2
sets of private school fees.

But a lot of titled nobility have lots of kids and their kids all need to go to private school and have fancy weddings and gifted homes! And they are far from Bezos rich...

@Momicrone

You are livng a middle class life now whatever you did as a kid

I’m not. I may own my own home, my kids have left school but I’m back to having to get up in the morning to earn a living in an unskilled job (EX7 paid school fees) and earning a weekly (not monthly) wage supplemented with UC. So I’ve gone working class, middle class for a nano second, back to working class 😁