To be frustrated about NI increase?

[NotMyselfWithoutCoffee]

I understand why NI is important, but at a time when gas, energy etc is going up this on top has royally pissed me off today.

My husband is 26 pounds a month down and I'm 10 pounds down from NI going up, so nearly 40 quid a month we are now paying into NI on top of everything else.
I don't know what we are going to do at the end of the month, we are just barely making ends meet at the moment. I'm even working condensed hours to relieve some of the burden of childcare.

Yes, there are costs. There are often costs to earning an income, such as commuting costs or home costs if you wfh, so in my example it's not a straight £100k profit for that person earning a wage, either. Plus, it's not automatic that the owner is paying council tax - everywhere I rented, before I bought, I paid the council tax, not the owner.

Ranting and swearing doesn’t give your argument more weight. It just makes you look immature and petulant.

Thanks for the lecture Hyacinth.

Guessing that the rest of the post was wasted on you. Not surprised that you can’t hold a conversation. Enjoy continuing the argument with yourself, by yourself.

Guessing that the rest of the post was wasted on you. Not surprised that you can’t hold a conversation. Enjoy continuing the argument with yourself, by yourself.
I can hold a conversation just fine thanks - although I generally find being pompous about others isn't a good way to engage in debate - I prefer to stick to debating the actual issues rather than sneering at others who disagree and trying to present myself as morally superior in some way. But suit yourself.

How?

Guardian - If you tax the rich, they won't leave: US data contradicts millionaires' threats

The threshold at which NI starts is raised in July.

Tory Britain

Make the people who work hard for their money and therefore are subject to NICs pay to subsidise wealthy pensioners rights to pass on their homes and assets to their spawn

YANBU, I just posted about this very same thing. I am a nurse and am down £25/month. I don’t have any more corners to cut but all of my outgoings are going up.

I saw my SIL on the weekend and spent £60 on her and her two DCs for her birthday—she is leaving a manipulative and toxic relationship and thought it would be nice to have a nice day out with her and the LOs…but now I’m regretting it and feeling guilty for regretting, but thinking I should have saved it for myself and my own DCs. Absolutely rotten situation.

I’d vote labour 100% but I’m not a UK citizen so don’t have a political voice here, unfortunately 😢

Lots was free, but I agree it was necessary, well most of it was. Covid uplift to UC to help people who were new to benefits, work from home tax relief, NHS care for those with covid, vaccines, test and trace. All completely necessary but also free.

Also some people seem to think the provision was unique to the UK, when in fact most countries gave some degree of support during lockdowns.

Against that background we're no worse off than other countries - not every country is enacting tax rises for their workers.

Me too.

We do need to pay for Covid though. People who say the rich should pay usually mean someone richer than them.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone sort of irrelevant what other countries position is. We have a big deficit in this country and need to pay for it

But the NI rise is not going to pay for any deficit, or furlough pay backs or such. The government have been clear that it is

a) to pay for the NHS backlog (I shall wait to see how quickly and effectively this new money will mean the backlog is worked on)
b) to pay for increase social care needs in an aging population

That's why it's not really an NI rise. It's a Health and Social Levy. Unless, the government are lying (surely not)?

Most of us will still be paying for our care homes. We have a care home fund - yes, that’s what we call it - and we fully expect to use it if we need residential care. The kind of place funded by the taxpayer (which includes us, by the way) isn’t where I want to end my days.

Other countries positions are extremely relevant since we will be trading with and competing against them in the World economy.
We aren't broadly out of line with the rest of the world.
National Debt isn't like a credit card or a bank loan.

As it happens I didn't get a penny in support, nor did my sister - we were both self employed (she still is) and both given nothing when our income went straight to zero. I don't mind paying my share but it was unfair to lump it onto people not as well off as me.

Assume person A is paid around £1850/month and person B £3150/month. Using standard Tax & NI calculators, from April 2022 (ignoring pensions and assuming a normal tax code) take home pay went from £1563 to £1553 (£-10) for person A and from £2447 to £2421 (-£26) for person B due to the changes in NI. From July 2022 when the NI threshold goes to £12570, take home pay will go to £1583 for person A and £2451 for person B.

Person A will be taking home £30/month than in April-June and £20/month more than in March. Person B will be taking home £30/month more than in April-June and £4/month more than in March.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone I agree that income tax would be fairer than Ni. I didn’t get any help during Covid either and am a single parent. I do think there is a general feeling that people want benefits but don’t want to be the one paying for them.

don’t agree though that it really matters what other countries do re personal tax rises. Personal tax, especially for average people doesn’t make a difference for international trade competition.

@Villagewaspbyke

@daimbarsatemydogsbone I agree that income tax would be fairer than Ni. I didn’t get any help during Covid either and am a single parent. I do think there is a general feeling that people want benefits but don’t want to be the one paying for them.

don’t agree though that it really matters what other countries do re personal tax rises. Personal tax, especially for average people doesn’t make a difference for international trade competition.

The welfare state was set up on the premise that everyone contributed and everyone gets something back. That seems to be no longer the case. We have an entire section of society that expects society to provide for them but they don't want to contribute a penny to society.

Because the cost of living has now risen far faster than wages have risen. If wages were fairer, people would be happier to contribute.

You were talking about us having to "pay back the cost of covid" via taxation. Obviously some government spending comes from taxation.
My point is that the decision to raise NI, just like the policies of austerity, are based on a political ideology - in the case of this and other Tory governments, that ideology is that poorer people in work should bear a disproportionately large burden of taxation.
That doesn't happen in every comparable country, which illustrates that is ideology and not some form of economic inevitability.

We have an entire section of society that expects society to provide for them but they don't want to contribute a penny to society.
How big do you think that "entire section of society" is, based on your extensive research?

We have an entire section of society that expects society to provide for them but they don't want to contribute a penny to society.
Or do you mean the non-doms?