To be frustrated about NI increase?

[NotMyselfWithoutCoffee]

I understand why NI is important, but at a time when gas, energy etc is going up this on top has royally pissed me off today.

My husband is 26 pounds a month down and I'm 10 pounds down from NI going up, so nearly 40 quid a month we are now paying into NI on top of everything else.
I don't know what we are going to do at the end of the month, we are just barely making ends meet at the moment. I'm even working condensed hours to relieve some of the burden of childcare.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

Part of the problem with making rich people pay is that the rich people can afford to live in another country and then pay nothing in the UK. This is what happened in the 70s when the highest tax rate went up to 75%(even up to 98%) the like of Tom Jones, Rod Stewart etc all moved to USA quite openly to avoid tax! Do you ever wonder why Adele live in the USA! If they aren't prepared to pay their share they are welcome to fuck off somewhere else.

Gun, foot, straight shot.

Telling the highest net contributors to F off is nothing short of idiocy. How do you suppose government spending will be funded? Fresh air, or printing money perhaps? You may have noticed the catastrophic rise in the cost living recently due to two years of relentless money printing.

The main problem with this is not the amount of tax we pay but the shoddy level of public service we get for it. The public sector is run far too much for the benefit of people working in it and not for the people who pay for it.

NI is not paid by people still working over state pension age.
From April next year they will pay the increased levy.

It's only til July then it won't be so bad.

This pissed me off so much, the money could be put to much better use by actually improving social care. I work in it and it's desperately needed, I already subsidise this industry with free work, buying my own equipment and working for a pittance - a pittance that means I can't afford my own house, so I'm now paying to ensure other people who already have more than me will be able to keep more than I'll ever have and I'm supposed to be happy about it.
And no, I didn't vote Tory.

Yes. Tax the rich so they all fuck off elsewhere and we delay the inevitable rises.
Great plan.
Furlough was absused, yes. Mumsnet seems to generally think that benefit fraud is such a teeny tiny problem that we should just ignore it. Are the two not similar?
It's shit, but covid needs paying for.

Ooh, do you think that Labour might have put NI down?

Answer the question

Furlough was abused by employers, not employees. Why should the employees suffer? They had no choice.

And businesses.

Yes, but we'd have to pay less if the government didn't piss a lot of our hard earned money away.

Furlough fraud is said to have cost us £7 billion.
Bounce back loan fraud is said to have cost us £3.3-5 billion.

Then there are the millions wasted on dodgy contracts for mates and other crap.

I don't think anyone here is so unreasonable that they wouldn't pay for covid itself but pissing away money is unforgivable. I don't throw money away in my household and wouldn't expect the public the bankroll me if they did.

The NI and dividend tax increases are set to raise £11 billion, which is roughly what they wasted. It doesn't take a genius to work out what we're paying for 🙄🤦

Absolutely not being unreasonable! What annoys me most about it is that the boomers will benefit from the care cap, but there's no way there'll be either a state pension or a care cap by the time I retire, so £50 down a month to give yet more to the older generation and get nothing in return, and to pay for endless lockdowns that I vehemently opposed.

But remember how much money the Tories have - they literally don't care if people can't afford basic bills, because it will never happen to them.

Thank you , that made me laugh.

For the first time in our married lives, everything is aligned for us.

DH retires in September with a FSP and state it brings us just under the 40p in the £ bracket for what feels like the first time in forever, coupled with no NI for him from August. Woohoo

We are aware that we are fortunate, and plan to divert a percentage of the surplus to the the local food bank.

They fall at exactly the same place that income tax doubles, so it's not that people are paying less tax above that.

NI does hide from lower earners that they aren't paying as much less than higher rate taxpayers as they think they are.

Well, yes, that is/was the point of it. The idea was that NI was not a tax, it's an insurance premium that pays for the state pension and NHS. So once you've paid enough to cover your benefit, you don't have to pay more. But you do have to pay higher rate tax instead. So the rich aren't better off, it's just that their tax goes into the general pot instead of covering what they get back from the state.

Telling the highest net contributors to F off is nothing short of idiocy. How do you suppose government spending will be funded? Fresh air, or printing money perhaps? You may have noticed the catastrophic rise in the cost living recently due to two years of relentless money printing.

They've really done a number on you haven't they?

This net contributor shit is relentless and ignores the massive increases in regressive consumption taxes (VAT etc) which have fallen once again disproportionately on the poor.

Why can't rich people pay a similar proportion of their income to the rest of us?

If they don't want to do that they are quite welcome to fuck off and try their luck somewhere else.

We tax too much on income and not enough on assets. According to the IFS, the imbalance has grown. We have to pay somehow for our society but the burden is increasingly falling to people earning modest amounts rather than wealth. Some people hate socialism but they all like socialism for them-otherwise why all the resentment about selling one’s house to pay for care? And CGT is only a tax on gains made-to hear people talk you’d think they were paying tax twice with CGT.

Ranting and swearing doesn’t give your argument more weight. It just makes you look immature and petulant.

Anyway, factually speaking income tax and NIC generates 42% of treasury revenue, VAT is 15%. Of the income tax contribution, top 1% contribute around 28%. You don’t have to live the rich (not that those on PAYE are particularly rich compared to other types of income). Nor do you need to be an ‘eat the rich’ type socialist.

The facts show that that if you want to generate higher tax take, you have to incentivize people. Telling them to F off does the exact opposite. As Francoise Holland in France found to his peril in 2010s, when the ‘rich’ fled the London to avoid 75% income tax rate. At the same time due to the wealth tax, France lost 16000 millionaires and 7bn Euros. Macron abolished both saying that these turned France into ‘Cuba without the sun’.

Higher income and wealth taxes rarely work. No point in going ‘yeah but, no but, yeah but’. You can hate the rich or incentivize to pay them more through policy which is mutually beneficial.

If 20% if the right tax to pay on income between approx. £12k and 50k and 40% is the right amount of tax to pay on income over approx. £50k then it is also the right tax to pay on assets that make or gain more than £50k.

If you earn £100k a year then you will pay about £27k in tax on that money.

If a property (not main residence) is bought for £100k and sells for £200k then it will have made £100k and you should pay £27k in tax on it. But you won't. You'll pay approx £20k on it - less than someone who worked for their income.

imo that's shitty.

You could just as people to pay more and more tax, or you could question how what’s paid is spent. Government spending is a bottomless pit. The more you put in, the more they will ask for. Because public sector, by definition, fails to take care of other people’s money like it’s their own. Not like businesses, which are answerable to shareholders and have to account for how they spend and invest.

A novel idea would be to increase minimum wage and stop subsidizing low wages through welfare. Actually have people earn more and keep more. Rather than pay them low wages, too up with handouts and tax others more for the privilege of keeping incompetent government departments in work through pointless re arranging deck chairs.

Kick the Tories out at the first opportunity.

Kick the Tories out at the first opportunity.

Sadly I don’t have that power.
I am objecting to the idea on this thread that those saying ‘it had to be paid for somehow’ are somehow brainwashed, obedient Conservatives. I’ve never voted Tory in my life. Never will. I knew we’d end up paying, it was inevitable. That doesn’t mean I agree with it, or that I’m brainwashed.

Your wage will rise again in July as they are lowering the threshold.

Your property argument fails in that there are costs of owning the asset. In the time the property takes to double in value, the owner will at current rates have likely paid far more than £7k in council tax plus maintenance and insurance. The gain isn't £100k in your example.