STOP FEEDING HORSES THAT ARE NOT YOURS

[Pineapplechickenpizza]

Unbelievable that this is still a problem after all the hype on social media and the news but unfortunately it is.

Why do people think it’s acceptable to feed an animal that isn’t there’s? I don’t care if it’s an apple or carrot or just a few blades of grass. They’re not your horses- DONT FEED THEM ANYTHING.

If you feed horses in fields that are not yours, honestly, why do you do it?? Do you realise how your ignorance could make someones horse unwell?

Dreading summer holidays when more people are out for walks and think it’s acceptable to feed the horses in the fields

If your right of way crosses a field of cows and calves, that are blocking your path, then turn back. Or if you're with a dog and the field is full of newborn lambs, turn back

In this thread we aren't talking about cows, or lambs, or crops. We are talking about horses, which although we tend to think of as livestock, in reality serve the same function in society as pets. Massive, beautiful, dangerous pets, but pets nonetheless.

If I climb over several barbed wire fences, and past signs saying "beware of the dog", into an enclosure full of rottweilers, then I am clearly a fool and its my fault, not the dogs' fault or the owner's fault, if I am bit.

If I walk along a legal right of way and am mobbed by rottweilers, then it's the owner's fault if either I or the dogs come to harm as a result.

I've learned a lot in this thread, and have already passed it onto my DS, and would not any more dream of feeding someone else's horse, but I maintain that it is irresponsible to put horses into fields across which the general public will walk.

Yet again you are ignoring the fact that thousands, yes I do mean thousands of horses in England are not pets. They are kept for conservation purposes and live in areas of great beauty where they have to encounter walkers every day. It is not possible to not keep horses where the general public will walk without euthanazing all of them as they have nowhere else to go as they live in free roaming herds right across our countryside!

5000 horses roam free in the New Forest
1500 on Dartmoor
600 on Exmoor plus lots of Exmoor ponies living in herds in AONBs right across the country
A few hundred in the Welsh mountains
Another few hundred in the Cumbrian Fells
Plenty in the islands of Scotland (Eriskay and Shetland ponies)
Other breeds living on common land and plenty of free roaming ponies on National Trust sites including the South Downs and Ashdown Forest, all kept for conservation reasons. I am aware of herds of Highland ponies and Konicks (Dutch ancient breed) on other conservation sites and I am sure there are thousands more I don't know about across the country.

These ponies are part of the ecology of our English landscapes. Take them away and the moorlands and other places of great scenic beauty will not be the same without them. The fields you walk through, without animals grazing would be a different landscape - much of it would become impassable as the gorse, bracken and bramble would take over. If farmers just grazed sheep on the land it would become a totally barren grassland as they eat the grass down until it is too short for many wildflowers to flourish and we would loose many valuable butterfly and bird habitats. Horses have unique grazing patterns and re-introducing them into areas such as the South Downs has led to an increase in biodiversity - flowers like orchids have started to increase in number since the sheep have been replaced by ponies. An increase in wildflowers leads to an increase in bees, butterflies and other beneficial insects. Ground-nesting birds return to these areas and visiting birds come to feast on the seeds and insects that biodiverse grasslands provide.

Horses are indigenous to this country as wild animals and we should respect the part they have played in creating our landscapes. To remove them all from areas the public have access to would be an environmental disaster on an unprecedented scale!

Do you personally still think that we should remove all horses from areas open to the general public?

Just because we can't solve all the problems of the world, Plantstrees, doesn't mean we shouldn't solve some of them.

I don't know what the answer is re Dartmoor, etc. Maybe we just live with the current situation. But that's separate to all the cases we do have an answer for, where horses are kept in perfectly ordinary fields, not on moors. When that's the case, the perfectly ordinary fields they ate kept in should not be fields crossed by a right of way.

I have the opposite problem. Horse owners/livery allowing their bloody horses to lean over my gardem fence and eat my plants. Twats.

Well you can maintain that stance all you want, the law says differently. The onus is on you as the human being to keep yourself safe, the horses live there, your rights are those of a visitor.

@Maverickess You said “To those complaining about the aggression, shouting, swearing etc and saying that it's not the best way to educate people - well I agree, however many of the people we're dealing with don't actually want to be educated, they want to feed the horse. “

This thread could have helped educate more people if it had started with PLEASE DO NOT FEED HORSES WHICH ARE NOT YOURS and then gone on to politely explain why.

This may have helped spread the word to more and more MNs who are unaware of the danger. Not being naive to think that would solve the issue immediately but at least would have targeted more people to spread the information. Sadly, all the angry posts (from all sides) have taken away from the message that needs sharing.

Like others I knew absolutely nothing about Laminitis until seeing a similar thread a few years ago. Your social media algorithms will regularly bring up horse stuff - mine will not so I’ve never seen it on my social media therefore helpful posts on MN can make a difference.

@ArcheryAnnie I accept that only 28% of land is officially designated as areas of conservation although this is not an insignificant amount and the acreage is growing annually. Do you not think we should be doing our best to ensure that all farmland is biodiverse?

Why should horse owners give up their land to walkers? Do you really think the current Countryside Code is unreasonable and unfair?

@ArcheryAnnie

Just because we can't solve all the problems of the world, Plantstrees, doesn't mean we shouldn't solve some of them.

I don't know what the answer is re Dartmoor, etc. Maybe we just live with the current situation. But that's separate to all the cases we do have an answer for, where horses are kept in perfectly ordinary fields, not on moors. When that's the case, the perfectly ordinary fields they ate kept in should not be fields crossed by a right of way.

It's clear you have a very strong beliefs about this, but as the law stands, you are just a visitor to the countryside and the onus is on you to treat the land and the animals you find there with respect.

It's irrelevant whether those horses are kept for work, conservation or pleasure - they live in those fields - you just have the right to pass through.

It's up to you as a (hopefully) sensible person to decide whether it's safe to continue and if it's not, then you should then turn back and find an alternative route or change your plans.

You keep arguing that cows and sheep are there for different reasons to horses but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why they're there. Horses are protected by the countryside code in exactly the same way as working livestock and you should be treating them in the same way and with the same healthy level of respect.

So again, if you feel unsafe, turn back and walk elsewhere.

The new quote function is appalling on the app 

"It's clear you have a very strong beliefs about this, but as the law stands, you are just a visitor to the countryside and the onus is on you to treat the land and the animals you find there with respect.

It's irrelevant whether those horses are kept for work, conservation or pleasure - they live in those fields - you just have the right to pass through.

It's up to you as a (hopefully) sensible person to decide whether it's safe to continue and if it's not, then you should then turn back and find an alternative route or change your plans.

You keep arguing that cows and sheep are there for different reasons to horses but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why they're there. Horses are protected by the countryside code in exactly the same way as working livestock and you should be treating them in the same way and with the same healthy level of respect.

So again, if you feel unsafe, turn back and walk elsewhere."

^^ that was for @ArcheryAnnie

Thing is, you don't need to know about laminitis to not feed a horse that's not yours, you just need to well, not feed it. Not engage in a deliberate act, as I've said in a pp, you don't accidentally feed a horse.
As I said, the "Why?" is generally a deflection, a response to being asked not to, not a genuine request for a lecture on laminitis, herd behaviour or colic.
Most horse owners will explain when asked why, but the root of it is people don't like being told no, especially when it's from someone they perceive as 'posh, rich, toffs, snobs, entitled, privileged' - there's a post way back where someone complains that a horse owner watched them interact with their horse, said nothing, didn't engage when they called out and then 'stomped off' - the horse owner said nothing, didn't ask them to stop but the impression is that because they weren't falling over themselves to be polite and welcome with open arms, they were in the wrong. Why did they 'owe' the people anything who had chosen to interact with horses on her land?

Horses aren't a public service, their owners do not owe the public some kind of customer service type thing or educational experience by virtue of owning one that's kept for the most part on private land and if someone does feel the need to involve themselves, then a simple 'Please don't do that' should suffice.
But it doesn't, because a lot are not wanting to know why not, they are challenging the why not because they don't like being told no.

Horses are classified as agricultural animals in just about every other European country but Britain, and as such are generally VAT exempt. The UK is an absolute outlier in this respect. In certain areas, most horses will not be pets, they will be youngstock or mares for breeding purposes or horses in training. The point is, you cannot be reliably sure if you know nothing about horses whether they are pets or breeding animals, and suggesting that "most horses in the UK are pets" isn't accurate at all. There are tends of thousands of racing and competition breeding horses in the UK, many of them in fields, who are not pets in any shape or form.

I think it has already been pointed out that criminal law in respect of escape of dogs treats horses in the same way as agricultural animals.

TheOriginalEmu this thread is about preventing harm to horses, no? Plenty of horsey people here have said that many (most?) people don't know how to interact with horses, and a smaller number don't care to learn. Some horsey people here have said that other people shouldn't interact at all, in any way, other than admiring the horses from afar. They have also said that plenty of horses have learned bad habits from interactions with ignorant members of the public, and those bad habits lead to more interactions, as horses beg for treats, etc.

Given that - whatever your personal wishes - hikers, picnickers, dog walkers and other members of the general public will continue to use rights of way over fields, doesn't it make sense to keep them apart, from horses, to prevent harm to both the horses and the people?

If you want to prevent harm to horses (or anyone else), it's not enough to be correct, you also have to be effective. You are currently not effective. Perhaps - if preventing harm to horses is really your first priority - being effective should be your goal.

There are tends of thousands of racing and competition breeding horses in the UK, many of them in fields, who are not pets in any shape or form

What makes this different from people who take dogs to Crufts? I said that horses perform the same function in society as other pets, and this remains true, whatever their legal classification (which is a hangover from when horses were primarily means of transport for goods and people). Dog breeders exist, and small subset of dogs are working dogs (eg farm dogs, service dogs, cadaver dogs) but the reality is that the vast majority of dogs are pets, including pets whose owners amuse themselves by entering them into competitions. This is functionally true of horses, too.

Give over! You can repeat you trite and faux naive blather a squillion times. The facts and laws will remain.

All you, the uninformed public, have to do is keep yourselves to yourselves, leave other people's property alone and make sensible decisions if your right of way is blocked, in use, by something you neither like nor understand.

All else is self serving blather, presumably intended to remove your obligation to think. The countryside is a work environment, not DisneyLand. And if you interact with it for leisure then you have to acknowledge that, refuse at your own peril. A bit like real life!

.....and this is why nothing will change. Because you aren't interested in being effective, you are obsessed with being right.

Given that - whatever your personal wishes - hikers, picnickers, dog walkers and other members of the general public will continue to use rights of way over fields, doesn't it make sense to keep them apart, from horses, to prevent harm to both the horses and the people?

As has been said millions of times - in an ideal world, yes.

But we don't live in an ideal world. Horses - including ones bred to work, need somewhere to live and some of those fields will, by necessity, be ones with rights of way running through them.

If you don't know enough about horses to walk past them safely, then turn around and walk somewhere else, it's not rocket science.

Horses are, like cows and sheep, protected by the countryside code whether you like or agree with it or not. Walkers should be following that code and if they means finding an alternative route to keep themselves and the animals safe, well, so be it.

and this is why nothing will change. Because you aren't interested in being effective, you are obsessed with being right.

So are you

The countryside is a work environment, not DisneyLand

Just to add: tourism and leisure are a major part of the rural economy. Its stupid to ignore that truth.

It's also just plain wrong to say that horses aren't part of that leisure economy. Horses (including breeding horses and racing them) are part of that leisure economy, however much you try to claim otherwise.

If you insist that there's a real division in the countryside between the "work environment" and "Disneyland" (there isn't- the "Disneyland" brings in a lot of money) then horses remain firmly on the Disneyland side of the equation.

ArcheryAnnie What makes this different from people who take dogs to Crufts? I said that horses perform the same function in society as other pets, and this remains true, whatever their legal classification (which is a hangover from when horses were primarily means of transport for goods and people). Dog breeders exist, and small subset of dogs are working dogs (eg farm dogs, service dogs, cadaver dogs) but the reality is that the vast majority of dogs are pets, including pets whose owners amuse themselves by entering them into competitions. This is functionally true of horses, too.

Crufts is an example of breeding dogs for aesethetic purposes while horse are mainly bred for physical performance. Crufts takes place indoors, horses are tested outdoors or in large spaces, because they are large outdoor dwelling animals. Dogs on the other hand tend to live indoors and be heavily socialised in order to do so.

I don't think you have ever been to Newmarket or the parts of England which are literally full of stud farms breeding horses to sell for hundreds of thousands of pounds. Not just racehorses but showjumping and dressage horses too. These horses are not pets. They are part of a rather calculated production line to produce commercial youngstock which is then sold for profit several times during their career. This is numerically the vast majority of horses in this country, not what you term "pet horses". And even of that subset, many are likely not pets but simply performance horses done on a smaller business scale. There are of course amateur performance riders who will see their horses as pets but even then they may still sell them on when their functional days are gone. Its a vast industry employing a huge number of people.

Horses really are agricultural animals, but as usual the "cute cuddly bunny" brigade like to label them in ways that suit their own somewhat psychologically peculiar definition.

If you don't know enough about horses to walk past them safely, then turn around and walk somewhere else, it's not rocket science.

But this isn't happening is it? I'd go a different way, anyway, because I'm scared of strange horses, but it's clear from this thread that a lot of people wouldn't. And in many fields you don't have a clear line of sight, so you don't know what animals are in the field until you are halfway across and they start running towards you.

Just to add: tourism and leisure are a major part of the rural economy. Its stupid to ignore that truth.

Nobody has argued otherwise.

But that still doesn't change the fact that the countryside is a workplace and tourism and leisure activities should fit around that,
not the priority over it.

So if your leisure walk takes you though a field of cows and calves, the smart thing to do is turn around and walk elsewhere. Likewise if you have a dog and want to walk through a field of newborn lambs.

The same, whether you agree or not, applies to horses. If you feel happy and confident to walk through safely, then go for it, otherwise don't be silly and turn around and go elsewhere.

The horses live there, you are just passing through.

Not just racehorses but showjumping and dressage horses too

Racing, showjumping and dressage are all still part of the leisure economy.

And in many fields you don't have a clear line of sight, so you don't know what animals are in the field until you are halfway across and they start running towards you.

If you are going to walk in the countryside then you should be reading up on what to do in these scenarios. Farmers and landowners don't have to lock their livestock away because you haven't read the countryside code and don't know what to do in the event that an animal does spook or charge - both of which are pretty rare events as people pass through their fields everyday anyway.

@Maverickess Well I was trying to help with my viewpoint as a non-horsey person in how you could get the word out that even one handful of grass is dangerous. In fact you don’t have to worry about me because I don’t like horses and have zero interest in petting them or feeding them. However, knowing about laminitis from a previous thread, now I would comment if I saw someone else feeding an animal. Believe it or not, I was trying to be on your side ….