Any Parking Ticket experts out there?

[ParkingApp3al]

Name changed for obvious reasons. I have had my appeal against a parking ticket rejected, and need to decide whether to appeal further.

Parking ticket is £70 reduced to £35 if paid in 14 days. If I opt to go for appeal there is no half-way option. I would have nothing to pay if I win, £70 if I lose.

I parked in a permit holders only bay because I misunderstood the sign right in front of the space where I parked my car.

As per the photo, the sign says permit holders only Mon-Fri, & pay at machine on Saturdays. I parked in the space on a Sunday. For context, all the public car parks in town are free on Sundays and as Sundays were not mentioned on the sign, I took this to mean this car park was also free and that it was OK to park there.

The council have rejected the appeal and sent me a photo of a small sign on an adjacent building which says the spaces are for permit holders only at all times.

My argument is that it is not reasonable to look for a sign somewhere else in the car park, when there is a sign right in front of where you are parked. Surely, It would be simpler to have a sign that just says permit holders only?

So to the jury.

AIBU and should I pay the reduced fine?

Or AINBU and is this worth taking to further appeal?

The other sign which is located on a building behind where I parked.

Were you in a numbered bay? If so then the sign is straightforward to me.

If you were in an unnumbered bay then I'd say appeal again.

That's ridiculous!! 😮 I think you should appeal. But then it's not my £35/70! 😂

Was the bay numbered? That seems to be the key, if it was numbered the first sign isn’t applicable.

Two conflicting signs, if the one first shown was next to where you parked then you followed obstructions perfectly! I'd appeal personally - nicely, with all the facts, and perhaps for their pictures showing how faraway sign 2 was ... stupid bloody council! Also ask what sign 1 means then if it's not free Sundays to native as that's what it reads

Not an expert, but it think it hinges on the numbered bays bit at the top.

Your first photo says Zone O? Unnumbered bays, so to park without a permit you’d need to be in an unnumbered bay.

Im guessing numbers are painted on the ground? So I suspect the council’s argument is, the first sign couldn’t relate to your bay if yours was numbered. And so you should have looked for a sign relating to numbered bays.

I think if it were me, if £70 was a lot, or I CBA with a fight, I’d cough up. But if I could afford £70 and was feeling belligerent I’d go for it.

The critical information we are missing is whether or not the bay you parked in was numbered?

Yeah, was the bay numbered?

I would appeal but then I lost a re-appeal when the parking meter was broken and the council said I should have gone into reception and paid there. This was a car park for 3 separate buildings and I was using a different building to the one they said I should of gone in and asked.

I also lost when I parked in a side street, no yellow lines or signs. I parked for a about a week while I visited family nearby. While my car was parked there, council put up signs and traffics cones and fined me. I argued, they said I should of checked my car.

I don’t expect the council to be reasonable

Forgot to say, the argument for appeal would hinge on whether the sign relating to numbered bays was sufficiently close to the numbered bays..

I would definitely take that to a further appeal, the signs are rubbish and unclear.

Obviously appeal further

If the other sign was more than about 30 feet away and/or obscured I'd happily go to court with that

I think that I probably did park in a numbered bay - so with hindsight - I get that I shouldn't have parked there.

However, the first sign was right by where I parked - literally by my car bonnet and so I took it to mean that the restrictions did not apply on Sundays, like the rest of the town.

Personally I’d appeal as would be happy to risk paying the full £70 as think there’s a good chance this is unreasonable. If you’re right next to a sign, why would you stalk the rest of the car park to check they are all the same? Ridiculous.

If you were in a numbered bay then I think you should pay up. The first sign you posted clearly refers to unnumbered bays.

This may or may not be correct (!) but I read somewhere that councils are currently so badly staffed due to COVID that they aren’t sending anyone to court on their behalf when a fine is contested, which means you win by default. It’s a risk though.. Agree that this is very unclear signage.

it would all depend on whether the Bay was numbered or not. You have to read the entire notice and not just assume only one part affects you. If it wasn't numbered then pay up, however if the bay was numbered and the second notice wasn't that near then definitely appeal. Did the council issue a picture of your car in the actual Bay used?

I think I would just pay it now, because if you were in a numbered bay I don’t think you will get anywhere with a further appeal.

It’s rubbish signage though. The white text on yellow is harder to read and easier to miss than the black on white, although I guess they’ve done it like that to try to draw attention to the yellow bit.

That is terrible signage. I think you should contest on principal - but then it's not my £70.

Personally I'd just pay the fine, the first sign quite clearly says it is in reference to un-numberd bay's only. So quoting this sign is irrelevant to your case apart from admiting you did not read it correctly and that is not a good defence in law. They explained you parked on a numbered bay and have provided evidence of the sign and you admit it. Alot less hastle to accept your in the wrong payup and move on..

Depends if you parked in a numbered bay. If you can go and check then see. If you didn’t I would appeal. If you did then it’s just very bad luck you didn’t see the right sign! Something I would have done too!

I always appeal! 😂🙈🙈 so, that’s my recommendation

Hmm a split of views. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hands up - I think I probably did park in a numbered bay - but I feel quite strongly that the signs are unclear and confusing.

Is it not reasonable to expect the sign relating to unnumbered bays to be in that section of the car park?

So the council photos don't show if I was in a numbered bay or not and their rejection of my appeal, text below, doesn't mention it either. Their argument is that the signage is clear, which is what I'm disagreeing with.

I have investigated the circumstances raised in your correspondence and have made the decision to not cancel your notice. The reasons for my decision are set out below, along with the options available to you at this stage.
You have stated in your correspondence that the signage is unclear but I must advise that the signage does clearly state ‘Named leasehold tenant permit holders only. At all times. Please see photographic images of said signage below.

If you parked in Zone B for named leaseholders with numbered bays then the rule is clear. You shouldn’t have parked there no matter the day.

If you parked right in front of the sign in your first post which relates to unnumbered bays then I would definitely appeal as it clearly states that Monday to Friday is reserved for permit holders and Saturday is for anyone to pay at the meter. Sunday isn’t mentioned at all so it’s not unreasonable to assume that parking then is free.
In my view the Council need clearer signs. If is wrong of them to place a sign about unnumbered bays in front of spaces that are reserved for permit holders at all times and unreasonable of them to expect drivers to trawl the car park to read every sign. Was the bay you parked in one of the numbered ones and if so was the number clear or had it faded.