To think handling difficult MILs can be really tough?

[MILfatigue]

My MIL of more than 20 years is lovely, fun and generous - until some unseen trigger is pressed, and then she completely changes. She becomes unpleasant, negative, finds fault with everything you say and do, makes relentless snide remarks, pulls faces to indicate her deep displeasure about any single comment you make, no matter how seemingly harmless (taking vitamins, how to cook something). The preferred victims are my 17yo DD (her granddaughter) and me. My DD in particular really gets it when Batshit Mode is activated. If her father or I are not around, my MIL will be quite nasty and even insulting. In front of an audience, or to me, a grown-up with more rights to expect respect, we get the snide side more - petty digs, incessant questioning, pulling faces.

My husband watches this in deep distress and feels very sorry, especially for our daughter, who would love a loving relationship with her grandma. There is no question of him or me pulling his mum up on it, because he fears it would end in WWIII, and I agree. It wouldn't be worth it. I have a temper and if it goes the confrontation way she will end up being the victim, and I'm not giving her the satisfaction.

The question is, what then? I've already resolved to cut opportunities for future contact between DD and her to the bare minimum. I'm not exposing DD to this toxicity anymore. but what about DH and me? We don't see them often - they live a few hours drive from us - so we could go very low contact. We already are, particularly since Covid. That is what DH would prefer, but it makes me sad, though. Family is very important to me. I love my side of our family, but I've got very little left of it, and I have always had hopes that relationships with his side will improve. But the stress of fearing The Switch and watching it come on every single time at the most unexpected point, plus the frustration and rage of having to put up with it and not feeling equipped or able to deal with it, respond to it, defend us from it - it is all too much. We are staying with them at the moment and after a singularly fine display of batshittery yesterday, I've been awake since 5am fretting about it all.

Is little to no contact the only answer? Are there better ways of handling of this? Could I do better? Is there a way of asserting oneself that doesn't lead to conflict? The truth is deep down that I blame myself for not being able to handle it better. It is tough, isn't it?

Thank you for reading all this.

@user75

My F is terrible, prone to tantrums and violent outbursts. FIL is a religious zealot who uses it to punish and lash out. MIL a bitter alcoholic. I put up with it and endless shite until I had my kids. Then I took charge and told them both - no nonsense or you don't see them - ever. FIL tried it a few times, most noticeably when he thought I was trapped breast feeding DD and DS was 2. I just said "Right, I warned you, we are leaving" grabbed DS by the hand(DD still latched on) and went to the car. A stunned DH joined us a few mins later and we left. Fuck them. Show your DD how to deal with twats and don't let her believe for one moment she deserves this crap.

Well done. I think I'd have also had to say something like, "it's up to us to tell them fairy stories".

Nowt much worse than religious arseholes talking shite about their imaginary friend. Believe what you like, but don't force it on normal people.

@MILfatigue

I hear you, *@Uafasach*. I hear you. The aftermath for DH and DD of a nuclear, if thoroughly deserved, fallout instigated by me would be far worse. They've both said as much and begged me for restraint. I am hot tempered and this is not in my nature. I hold back out of love for them and a pathetic sense of hope that things might change.

What would actually happen that would be 'far worse'? I think it's worth spelling this out. Because what you're already describing is very bad. What would she actually do?

There is no question of him or me pulling his mum up on it, because he fears it would end in WWIII, and I agree. It wouldn't be worth it"

What you are saying here is

There is no question of him or me pulling his mum up on it, because he fears it would end in WWIII, and I agree. My daughter isn't worth it.

If you and your DH (and the onus is on him mostly here as it is his mother) cannot protect your daughter just because you can't resolve a situation like adults, you are setting her a shit example for her own adult life.

We need to show our daughters how to deal with abusers, not witter on about being embarrassed at a National Trust park FFS.

You and your DH need to take some responsibility here and stop exposing your DD to abuse. And then just weakly saying you can't deal with it like an adult so she will just have to keep on being abused.

Fuck sake.

@NoFitStateMum

Two thoughts from me:

I wonder if men have similar issues with their MILs?
Many MNers who moan about MILs will be MILs themselves one day.

Indeed they will and if they remember the verminous behaviour of their MIL and behave accordingly, they won't have any problems, like the millions of people who don't post here complaining, because, well, they've got nothing to complain about.

Act like a cunt, then you deserve to be treated like one. Act like a nice human, be treated as part of the family. Not exactly rocket science, is it?

Your DH sounds pathetic and weak. Is he?

Why on earth is he letting his mother treat his child like this?

@Sillydoggy

DFOD - what a curiously rude and unhelpful response.

You spelled "appropriate" wrong

@DefiniteTortoise

Your DH sounds pathetic and weak. Is he?

Why on earth is he letting his mother treat his child like this?

Because he is more scared of his mother than the apparently strong and hot-tempered mother of his child.

If you and your DH (and the onus is on him mostly here as it is his mother) cannot protect your daughter just because you can't resolve a situation like adults, you are setting her a shit example for her own adult life.

Actually in early years it was much easier for me to step in than DH with his parents - and much easier for DH to step in with mine when they overstepped.

GD is 17 - I say does she have to see this person at all in future especially as it's some distance away.

In which case it's just OP dealing with it all - so go much less often let DH go by himself - stay elsewhere when you do visist- so there's more space and less time for shit to happen and meet up as much as possible in public and on neutral ground - ie not in her house and possibly have other plans that weekend to dilute it all.

If relationship hasn't improved over 20 years it's unlikely to do so now without something big happening.

Personally, the time WW3 is necessary is when it comes to protecting your children- I know it's not happening all the time but it's clearly too often to not be having some kind of an impact as you've posted here.

If you don't want to let your temper out, tell her your leaving each and every time and give her a full frank reason, you don't have to scream and shout- fuck DH because he should have been pulling his mother up years ago, not letting it carry on because he's scared

People like this don't change. This woman isn't going to modify her behaviour should circumstances continue as they are: that is all-but guaranteed.

You're continuing in the same vein in the hope that things will get better. They won't. Relinquishing that hope is the first major step. It's painful, especially if, as you say, you had higher hopes of a close family unit. You say you value family, but I suspect what you crave is more the idea of a cosy, loving family circle than the reality you've been given. Accepting that you can only work with what's there will set you free from these ideas. Letting go of hope hurts, but it's also liberating and empowering.

The best gift you can give yourself is to read Susan Forward's book Toxic In-Laws. IME, it's a game changer. She favours non-defensive communication which leave the tempestuous ones nowhere to go with their rage, and her strategies are extremely effective. Going nuclear or NC are last resorts.

Read and digest it first. Then get your husband onside. It's important you present a united front, but be prepared for this being the biggest hurdle. You need to make it absolutely clear to him what is the minimum you are and are not willing to accept. Set your boundaries down and stick to them.

Whatever approach you choose I hope it works, but I agree with PPs that your DD needs to know you have her back and will no longer tolerate her grandmother's negative behaviour. I also know it's easy to say all this and can take a long time to put it into practice. Strong boundaries can sometimes save the inevitable decline of the relationship into a complete division of the family; that said, there are no guarantees.

Good luck.

Your dd is learning that it's better to be treated badly and not make a fuss than stand up for yourself, or have someone else do it on your behalf. It's not a good lesson.

What is the worst that could happen?

The way I see it we all have to learn to deal with unpleasant people. Some should be cut out of our lives quickly and firmly, some need to be managed. Much as it is tempting to say just walk away not all situations make that necessary, easy or possible and we should always spell out the consequences of the choices we have. The purpose of discussing it is to allow everyone, especially older children, to understand and make an informed decision. When you have done that it is much easier to stick to the decision you have made. I talked it through with my daughter, I told her how stupidly FIl would behave and she said 'that's fine with me, I'd rather not see him' and I supported her. If he had been abusive rather than just rude I would not have asked her opinion at all but this way she felt empowered to make the decision in a way that I hope she will always carry with her when other situations arise.

My advice to the op in a much more difficult situation would be to sit down with her dd and dh and say 'this situation has become untenable what are we going to do about it? nothing is not an option', find a way forward together. Be ready with the options to put on the table but form a plan together.

Ps my MIL was similar but about more members of the family, there was no one specific scapegoat. I pulled her up every single time, it was exhausting, I was labelled over sensitive and humourless . I went no contact after years of crap. Had countless conversations with my dd and dh about MIL's behaviour, they both gave her the benefit of the doubt.

However, my dd then also went no contact when her grandmother called her a cunt, and my dh followed very soon after. To this day my MIL complains to the rest of her family that we all over reacted. The scary thing is that they agree. It's part of such a twisted set of family relationships that the only healthy thing to do is to disengage.

And this is why women end up in abusive situations - because their parents don't protect them from abuse and they grow up thinking its normal. You don't have to go nuclear, you just have to never let MIL be around your DD. Step the heck up!

My advice to the op in a much more difficult situation would be to sit down with her dd and dh and say 'this situation has become untenable what are we going to do about it? nothing is not an option', find a way forward together. Be ready with the options to put on the table but form a plan together.

Given the age of the GC - 17- that's not a terrible idea.

I/we started managing when children was much much younger - so modeling how to manage behavior was I think right way for us to go as it does seem to have been picked up internalised and applied to similar situations.

A big driver not to just accept it was my Dmum - as I could see I had fallen into a very similar situation/setup to her and didn't want to be seen as angry bitter one and the behavior driving anger being forotten.

Many false starts a few unhappy conversations with DH and every so often a minor upset but we all seem happy but downside do have to be aware and do fair bit of manging avoiding or hreading off some situations pushing back on others.

Sounds similar to my MIL. I am a people-pleaser who hates confrontation and so I just used to put up with the snide comments and digs.

Then one day I had enough. She had been really rude to me on the telephone, and the next day I went to see her. I was extremely calm and polite, and just said something along the lines that the way she had spoken to me was not acceptable and that "the bullying stops here". I wouldn't let her try to excuse her way out of it, I just kept the message very simple - you will not bully me again, you will not be rude to me again, it is not acceptable.

And it worked! I had to see her at an event a few weeks later and she actually came up to me and apologised! I am still very wary of her and keep contact to a minimum - we see each other maybe a few times a year - but I feel like it is manageable now.

The other thing that really helped was that DH backed me up too - he never used to and I think that made her think that she could get away with it. But now she can't.

You've got to stand up to these kind of bullies.

The only reasons I can see why you are putting your MILs behaviour are either she has some sort of psychological or medical issue that causes her to react in an erratic and irrational way or that there is a concern about future inheritance.

People put up all sorts of awful behaviour because they do not want to risk being written out of a will, and horrible people who know this wield this power to their advantage. DH put up with similar behaviour until he eventually exploded and told his DPs to get stuffed, they soon changed their behaviour when they realised they might not see their DGCs anymore.

Totally agree your daughter will end up a people pleaser attracting all kinds of users and abusers, if yiu dont role model healthy boundaries with difficult people.
At 17 she can start with your support to calmly challenge and call out this behaviour, as can you.
There really is no need for drama, just telling her enough, its making me feel (insert emotion) if you continue we are leaving over and over.
Bullies like this continue because they do so unchalleged.
You are helping uour DD with this now to help her in future. User friends, exploitative partners, horrible bosses she got it all to come. Get her to start now.

You’re teaching your child to accept abuse, pure and simple. If your mil goes nuclear, then so be it. Your dd is the important one here, it is down to you to protect her which you currently aren’t doing. You’d rather allow her to be abused because it’s a relative and you think she needs a family. She has a family-your side.

Wise up, OP. Your dd will not thank you for this and will lose touch anyone once she no longer lives at home.

*anyway

@Sillydoggy I am interested in where you specifically draw your red line between finding it acceptable not to step in to protect your child when an adult is “just rude” to them rather than abusive?

A good rule of thumb is that anything less than polite and kind is disrespectful, unacceptable and needs addressing.

You might find this helpful to understand the impact and emotional legacy.
www.verywellmind.com/how-to-recognize-verbal-abuse-bullying-4154087

You don't have to be rude and trigger WWIII though OP-
It's ok to say "stop it" "MIL stop going on at me/ DD, you made your point, we disagree, that's enough said now so let's change the subject. Who's for a cup of tea? Or for looking at those flowers over there? " and walk alway if the subject doesn't change.

Never stand there when (verbal) jellyfish stings are being aimed at you or anyone else.

End of a long drive so I will read more carefully later/tomorrow, but I have seen some really useful advice and some kind, supportive comments, for which I thank you. I was very distressed when I wrote my post this morning.

Those of you engaging in name-calling, I suggest you don't. It makes you look not very smart and cheapens and detracts from whatever wisdom your advice might contain. But you do you, of course.

Sometimes with older relatives it is not always black and white with the whole cause WW3. There may well be genuine nice memories and good times with said relatives, just because MIL can suddenly go nasty does not necessarily mean as some advise you should drop the bomb on it all.
Of course you and DH should step in when DD is getting any of the nasty I would say something along the lines of " stop being so critical MIL DD won't come again if you snipe at her over nothing"
Then when and if you visit and DD doesn't come you can be honest and say " your unpleasant outbursts have put her off she was very upset and actually so was I" This might give her chance to think about her behaviour without unleashing the massive row.
Then honestly I would cut the visits and let DH go by himself and he can tell her again that you were both upset by how she behaves. Sounds like you have tried over the years but I would just stop going. She sounds mentally unstable.

Hi, sending you a virtual hug - sounds like you need it. Your post has sparked an interest in me as I posted exactly the same thing a couple of days ago. Your mother in law sounds exactly like mine, my situation finally came to a halt a couple of weeks ago when she tried to punch me - I will never see or speak to her ever again. My advice would be to seriously limit your time around her or even go no contact at all, especially if things get any worse. I for one know how terrible a situation you are in and I also know how upsetting it is, so please be kind to yourself. It seems that a lot of the people who are leaving negative comments to your post are the same people that have left horrible venomous comments to me - how people can be so horrible to people they don’t know is beyond me so please just ignore their disgusting words - I will share with you some words that one kind OP left for me “The people rushing to criticise you for your behaviour appear to have a lot of baggage of their own, which they are trying to push onto you to make themslves feel less terrible. Amusingly (or not) this seems rather similar to the behaviour of your MIL. I doubt that they are capable of sufficient self-insight to take that observation on board, but there we are.” I really hope that you manage to find some peace from your situation, I completely understand how hard it is, you sound like a lovely person and a fantastic Mum I hope you are ok 💐