The heat or heat statment.

[Heiionwheels]

I am aware that ( totally apart from rising food and petrol costs and other general cost of living costs or any medical or age related need for heat) a few of my more elderly friends are actually agast at all the reactions about the 'need 'to be warm in the house.
They have sèen that younger family members have got used to / seem to feel it the norm/ entitled to being able to walk round indoors in shorts and t shirts.
Wereas when they were younger they only heated one room ,wore jumpers, used hot water bottles as normal life. There wasnt all this talk of hypothermia and i live in a old house.
They seem to think believimg that you need a hot / warm house is actually a quite spoilt entitled stance and refelective of a pampered generation in some ways ,one who cannot cope with putting on an extra jumper, watching the pennies,being frugal .
They think that the tears on tv, the talk of getting ill due to cold reflects todays attitides of unability to get on with things and expectation of what is actually luxery not really such a hardship( apart from above type ofgrounds as outlines) .
Many many people have managed without warm houses and they want to know why this is seen as a right amd essential when really its a modern day thing. Likewise people have lived thro many things and have had to live frugally.we can do it too .
I see their point in some ways.

I remember my granny's house. Stone floors, no heat and it was bitter in Scotland in the winter. My feet were permanently numb. Sleep was very hard.

I also remember having no heat as a student. The whole house, including our beds, was damp and cold. I was very ill as a result. No amount of hot water bottles and solar lamps would have done anything. My granddad, who was a hardened mill worker who lived through two wars, used to put his tweed coat on to come in and thought it was barbaric. He wouldn't have wanted that for my child.

When people talk about heating or eating, their houses aren't at 22 degrees FFS.

Why is the young man “saintly “ he is doing what he thinks is right for him in his situation. Of course it’s not the same for everyone .

My grandson has a medical condition and he needs constant baths and hot water .

Nothing is black and white .

I didn't say I was ok with people dying from the cold. Just that heating is a luxury.

Unless you are ok with people dying from the cold, heating cannot be considered a luxury. Out is necessary to keep people alive.

We need more sustainable ways of generating heat. That is not what this discussion is about. While people cannot afford to pay their heating bills, we need to support them so they do not die. I did not think that would be a controversial statement.

*The fact that so many people here think it's a god given right to be 'comfortable' is what's causing the problem.

People need heat. Absolutely. However, the way we've been doing it was never ever sustainable.*

So then, ration fuel if need be - give everyone an equal amount; why is it ok to just make the poor uncomfortable? I expect if fuel was rationed many on here would be outraged, whereas the people in fuel poverty right now would barely notice, or might even be better off.

Why do your kids have more right to feel comfortable?

Well speaking as quite an old person your 'elderly friends' OP are talking bollocks and so are you for posting this.

I'm 73 and I grew up in a time before central heating was in most homes.

We had an open fire in the living room and paraffin stoves to heat the other rooms.

We would wake up to ice on the inside of the windows in the coldest parts of winter.

Trust me having central heating in not a luxury. And in our country in 2022, people having to chose between heating their homes - and yes you can get ill from being cold - and putting food on the table is a scandal.

I'm am in the fortunate position that I don't have to make that choice and am able to keep my home warm and feed myself, and no I don't walk around in shorts and a t-shirt, but talking as someone who really feels the cold, as you tend to when you get old, I can't imagine how awful having to make that choice must be whether you're old, or young.

What do you hope to achieve by your goady post?

@lemmein

I would definitely buy into fuel rationing and an equal distribution for all. Ultimately it's not ok for some to have whilst some don't and that applies to all sorts of basics.

But sadly this is what some of us voted for (not me btw) and I'm still stunned that this government can let poorer people choose to eat or heat.

@PurpleDaisies

When gas runs out and we've exhausted the world's resources we'll all be dying from the cold (if not from other things). When that happens come back and tell me that heating isn't a luxury.

I think it's wrong to unnecessarily heat the house to 20 degrees. I don't think it's environmentally sustainable. Most people can be safe and healthy at a lower standard temperature.

That said, there are some who need it warmer- I'm not sure though where the figures for that come from, when we're told older people or those with certain conditions need it warmer. If they are reliable, then that's what we need to aim for, for those people.

The rest of us need to get used to wearing suitable clothing or move to a warmer climate.

Cold houses make physical and mental health problems worse. We are not just talking about hypothermia but in older people it makes arthritis and mobility worse, respiratory problems, increased risk of falls etc. Increased burden on health and social care. Not that anyone seems to give a flying toss about that.

yes I was a child of the 70's as well OP - it was such fun - ice on the inside of the window - a single paraffin heater on the landing to warm the upstairs - gas fire on only when needed - 10p for the meter - balifs at the door - my mum missing meals so we could eat - power cuts, strikes etc

we never had it so good

it's 2022 now and I like to think society has progressed so we don't accept being cold and hungry as a way of life - but that's just my opion

oh and my mum - single parent from 1974 NEVER had to use food banks - aint progress great

*Women died during childbirth frequently
People died from simple infections
It wasn’t illegal to force sex on your wife

THINGS HAVE CHANGED*

What have those three things to do with house temperature?
And yes, things have changed. In particular the climate has changed.
I doubt these older people meant that people had no heating. But a pullover might mean the thermostat could be turned down without loss of comfort. Also, coal fires radiate the right wavelength of heat to warm a human being (according to a physicist I know),. Radiators actually don't heat by radiation but by convection.

What is wrong with wearing a pullover to keep warm? You surely don't think those people used to swan around the house in a tee-shirt in the winter when they were young?

Unfortunately it was the wide use of coal started climate change. And here we are

I grew up without central heating and in poverty. Yes. You coped. You coped with being hungry. You coped with being cold but it was fucking miserable. What kind of fucking idiot would think anything other than dear god I hope we don't go back to those days?

My mum used a twin tub, mangle and a manual carpet sweeper. You think I want to give up my washing machine and hoover? Fuck off.

[quote Lunar27]@lemmein

I would definitely buy into fuel rationing and an equal distribution for all. Ultimately it's not ok for some to have whilst some don't and that applies to all sorts of basics.

But sadly this is what some of us voted for (not me btw) and I'm still stunned that this government can let poorer people choose to eat or heat.[/quote]
Well that I can agree with - your posts seemed in agreement with the 'fuck the poor' posters with your 'luxury' comment. I understand what you mean now though and agree - if it's a choice between rationing depleting resources, or ramping up the costs so only the poor ration (or go without completely) I agree with the first option!

I'm freezing with or without heating tbf 😩

It has occured to me also that the elderly people did not mean no heat at all but that people should not feel deprived if they have to comprimise. No heating the house like a furnace. No expectation of wearing t shirts in winter.
Maybe they were meaning cut your cloth. Dont be expecting all the time.
Work out your priorities.
This would of course not apply to people unable cut their cloth as its already cut .

You just have to get used to some things. as not much heating, you just wear more clothes, and try and get your beds a bit warm, with hot water bottles.. you will get used to things, if there are no other options to keep warmer. You can eat decent meals quite cheaply, if you don't buy junky stuff or takeaways and the like.

I agree they have a point OP.

I think similar when I hear about people ‘skipping meals’ because I don’t eat three meals a day in the first place. Most people want and have far more food than their bodies actually need.

Obviously I’m not saying it’s ok for people to be genuinely hungry and unable to eat.

@Theunamedcat

My son is naked heat or no heat he has sensory issues and will freeze before putting clothing on

Yep, unless people have experience with disabilities, they have no right to assume. My autistic daughter will only wear shorts and t-shirt. We need to heat her room, at least.

Well they are idiots. They should take a look at the excess winter deaths during and following very cold weather and multiply that figure by the staggering rise in the number of people who are now living with fuel poverty. But don't let actual figures get in the way of a good old rant bitching at the poor.

Poverty doesn't stop being poverty just because it used to be worse.
Would you suggest we go back to families in one room of a back to back house with a tin bath? Collecting water from a fountain on the street? Sharing a bread bun and some dripping between 6?

People may have survived with less heat and probably look back with rose tinted glasses, saying things like 'it didn't do me any harm' and 'it's character building' but lets be honest, at the time, if those people had the option of cheap and instant gas heating throughout the house then don't you think they would have had it? Yes, it is more luxurious but so are most things in modern life when compared to the past....thinking washing machines vs hand washing, going to the supermarket vs growing all your own food. Everything we have is luxury, doesn't mean we can't be sad about not being able to afford it anymore.

@lemmein

Definitely not. I grew up poor, have been poor most of my life and whilst I may be more comfortable now, know how draining it is.

But I stand by my opinion that heating is a luxury for everyone, not just the poor. I've spent this winter working from home with no heating on at all as my attitude hasn't changed with my circumstances.

We may well be moving toward a welfare fuel scenario as it's clear that we can't go into another winter like this. I'd be happy to sponsor a family in need but truth is, there are probably too many people in need and the amounts of money far too great. Therefore the government need to step in but just not this one.

@FairyCakeWings

I agree they have a point OP.

I think similar when I hear about people ‘skipping meals’ because I don’t eat three meals a day in the first place. Most people want and have far more food than their bodies actually need.

Obviously I’m not saying it’s ok for people to be genuinely hungry and unable to eat.

But some people want to eat three - or more/less - meals a day; these meals may be smaller (or larger, not that it matters). Do you think that people should only have or want the amount and quality of food/clothing/heating required to sustain life, and no more than that?

In the 50s the average life expectancy was about 65 in the UK. The average life expectancy is now 81. Obviously medical advances contributed to that but so did some decent heating and housing. Your elderly friends probably wouldn't have been alive if they were freezing cold and old in the 1950s.

It's not "talk about hypothermia" it's a reality. I'm a nurse and have spent many hours in "hypothermia rooms" trying to slowly and safely warm elderly people up.

The older people I work for are worried - they’ve seen the harm that being cold and unable to afford food can do. They probably won’t be able to afford me to visit in the winter months so I’ll lose work.