The heat or heat statment.

[Heiionwheels]

I am aware that ( totally apart from rising food and petrol costs and other general cost of living costs or any medical or age related need for heat) a few of my more elderly friends are actually agast at all the reactions about the 'need 'to be warm in the house.
They have sèen that younger family members have got used to / seem to feel it the norm/ entitled to being able to walk round indoors in shorts and t shirts.
Wereas when they were younger they only heated one room ,wore jumpers, used hot water bottles as normal life. There wasnt all this talk of hypothermia and i live in a old house.
They seem to think believimg that you need a hot / warm house is actually a quite spoilt entitled stance and refelective of a pampered generation in some ways ,one who cannot cope with putting on an extra jumper, watching the pennies,being frugal .
They think that the tears on tv, the talk of getting ill due to cold reflects todays attitides of unability to get on with things and expectation of what is actually luxery not really such a hardship( apart from above type ofgrounds as outlines) .
Many many people have managed without warm houses and they want to know why this is seen as a right amd essential when really its a modern day thing. Likewise people have lived thro many things and have had to live frugally.we can do it too .
I see their point in some ways.

Alightjacket why is it goady to discuss something that oh dear others may disagree with .

There is a middle way you know, which most people fell into prior to the mad bill rises. I grew up in the 1960s. We had ice on the inside of our windows. I don't walk around in shorts in my house, I wear an Oodie and when I sit a put a fleece over my legs. I do however appreciate not having ice on the inside of my windows or getting into an ice cold bed. It's lovely having a gas fire that gives out heat at the flick of a switch!

There's a reason people live longer these days. Growing up and being elderly in cold, damp homes creates so many issues and a breeding ground for respiratory illnesses, some of which can prove fatal to vulnerable people.

For all the 'it did me no harm' brigade, there are plenty of people who it did do harm to. Many of them just aren't around to tell us.

It's also just another layer of exhaustion for people in poverty. Wear layers, manage in a damp home, eat basic cheap food, no luxuries, no holidays, no new clothes. When every day is a fucking slog already, adding in a freezing cold house is not a minor thing.

I grew up in a cold house, and it definitely did not make me resilient, or used to it.
However, a distant acquaintance once said to me, he expected to be able to walk around his house naked in the middle of winter, and I do feel that is taking things to the other extreme.
So far, as the bills rise, we have adopted an approach of turning the heating down a notch (not off), and maybe coming on later in the morning, and going off a bit earlier.
(This was before the current warm weather, obviously. We have now turned it off).
I am concerned for those with young children, who will obviously want to keep their house warm, with all the increases in prices so far, and expected ones to come. To be dismissive of this is not the answer, especially as modern houses are generally more open plan than older ones.
Also, it may be as well to know that it is not only heating, but all utilities that are going up in price.
Therefore know that it is those appliances that use ‘heat’, such as washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers, electric kettles, etc, that will be costing more. Yes, in the old days, we did not have the same kind of fabrics that we have now, and we are generally more geared to having to wash clothes more often.
So, I am concerned, and will try to adopt mitigating strategies that I can.

Because you're talking shit mate and your faux innocence is ridiculous.

On point. At least own your views.

Heating isn't a right. It's a luxury.

Gas isn't going to last forever. Then what? Heat pumps aren't great for all houses so some will be in for a big surprise in the coming years.

Human advances have made life easy but finite resources will force a change to our expectations. Home heating will be one of them.

Having a dry, warm home during winter should not be a luxury in 2022.

Heating isn't a right. It's a luxury.

Thousands of people die every year because they can’t heat their homes. Heating is not a luxury.

I'm in the north of Scotland where the temperature is often below freezing during winter. People die if they can't heat their homes. What's luxurious about that?

@Hugasauras

Having a dry, warm home during winter should not be a luxury in 2022.

This.

I wonder what's happening in hot countries with A/C too. I get up in ME, summer would be bloody miserable with no A/C

We could survive without all sorts of modern things OP.

Your phone, for one, we could easily survive without.

@PurpleDaisies

And?

How does that alter the fact that heat comes from extracting the earth's (finite) resources and burning them to create heat.

Think about it.

I agree with you that people use too much heat and can take it for granted. Its like when people leave their cars running.
There is a happy meduim
However, no one should be in food heat poverty or heat poverty in that its not right that if people bugdget and use their money responsibly that they cant afford to heat a room if they work time and are frugal.
This is how we live . As a norm .
Heat one room. When its really cold. Otherwise dressing gown / duvet
Never just cook one thing in oven .
Cook from scratch . No meat. Meal.plan at all times .
If people do all those things but then cant afford to heat one room then thats not great. And thats the place were it becomes untenable However, expecting hot houses , take aways, no meal planning etc then that can see as spolit if they complain.

[quote Lunar27]@PurpleDaisies

And?

How does that alter the fact that heat comes from extracting the earth's (finite) resources and burning them to create heat.

Think about it.[/quote]
You’re ok with thousands of people dining because they can’t afford it?

You really wrote “and?” in response to that? What a cold and callous person you must be.

It amazes me how the last 2 years MN has been full of posters crying 'don't kill granny - stay at home' but now don't give a shit about granny (or indeed anybody!) freezing/starving. Life has been oh so important and must be saved, at all costs, through covid - yet now? Pffft fuck it!

Throughout the pandemic: 'we need COLLECTIVE action, STOP BEING SO SELFISH'

Through the cost of living crisis: 'people are so entitled wanting food and heat - take some responsibility for yourself! Eat lentils FFS!'

Some might think it wasn't about 'saving granny' at all 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Hugasauras

I'm in the north of Scotland where the temperature is often below freezing during winter. People die if they can't heat their homes. What's luxurious about that?

It's worth having a think about the way heating works currently and why world problems might be incompatible with the lives we live.

Perhaps then you might understand why heating is a luxury.

Lunar27 agree with you. Humans as a race can tend to think we are more important.than some things. Like say, the planet .

@Heiionwheels

Our ds has listened to family members. Instead of fearing being cold amd bills he is trying to think outside the box. He is using solar lights at night , hot water bottles and duvet for tv . He feels ok . He is warm. He says he feels that tho he would much prefer heat ,it is developing some resorcefulness in him .

How very saintly.

There’s a big difference between walking around in shorts and a t shirt, and being freezing cold.
We never ever heat our house to t shirt temperature in winter, but we are able to afford to heat it so we are warm enough with a jumper and fluffy socks, for example.
Tbh (medical conditions aside) I do think heating your house so you can wear a t shirt in winter is a bit wasteful. But when people are talking about “heating or eating”, that’s not what they mean.

AngelinaFibres.. the young man may not be being saintly as you put it... he may be trying to be resourcefull.. the problem with that is??

@SickAndTiredAgain

There’s a big difference between walking around in shorts and a t shirt, and being freezing cold. We never ever heat our house to t shirt temperature in winter, but we are able to afford to heat it so we are warm enough with a jumper and fluffy socks, for example. Tbh (medical conditions aside) I do think heating your house so you can wear a t shirt in winter is a bit wasteful. But when people are talking about “heating or eating”, that’s not what they mean.

Exactly! I used to work at social services - it wasn't unusual to visit icy cold homes where clients wore coats at all times indoors; and this was 5+ years ago - I worry how those people are coping now.

Conflating the middle 't-shirts in winter' with those who live in fuel poverty is so disingenuous it's offensive. Or maybe people are so detached from poverty they really believe a jumper will solve the issue?

It’s not goady to have a discussion . In some European countries they are limited to the amount of power they can use at any one time so they have to adapt.
What would people do if their mortgages went up to 15% like they were in the 80s ?

I was in one of those homes with no central heating and I have no wish to go back to it at all . It was horrible. My Nan had a house with no electric and no running water . And that was in the Second World War .

None of us want to go backwards . And I totally agree that somehow we need help for the poorest families .

But the rest of us will need to also somehow cut down , think differently about our level of comfort . Because we have been taking things for granted .
Also no one has mentioned the thousands of businesses that might actually go under because they can’t afford the energy costs . What about the NHS ? We all pay for that as well .

Long term …. I think we in the UK should have one totally free UNiversity that is dedicated to energy saving research and factual weighing up of the economies of each idea and we could actually attract the best brains from all over the world just to study and develop on this one very important subject .

They have sèen that younger family members have got used to / seem to feel it the norm/ entitled to being able to walk round indoors in shorts and t shirts.

This is the second time I've read this line today.

Is this a third thread inspired by the other two threads about "the poor"?

People can't afford to walk around wearing shorts and t-shirt throughout winter, maybe teenagers they don't pay the bill otherwise sane adults don't do it.

Stop trying to blame past/future generations on what is a difficult time for many people.

My DM's home was like a furness every winter.

@PurpleDaisies

No, you're being overly dramatic. I didn't say I was ok with people dying from the cold. Just that heating is a luxury.

Just because you don't seem to understand the logistics of heating a home in the modern world, it doesn't make me callous.

What the hell do you think happens when you flick the central heating switch on or plug in an electric heater? Do you honestly think that we can/could do this forever? The fact that so many people here think it's a god given right to be 'comfortable' is what's causing the problem.

People need heat. Absolutely. However, the way we've been doing it was never ever sustainable.