work trip not what it seemed :/

[biokult]

Accepted a job of which international travel was involved, was very lucky in that I had a couple offers, which I turned down for my current position. Country is considered unsafe, however the insitute I would be based at is in a tourist-y area which is why I was comfortable agreeing.

Things have been very rushed due to lack of staff, and feel like my queries are not being answered.

My current dilemna is thus: a member of the team mentioned they would be based at a certain site, which was not the area I had expected to working in. I would then be expected to commute there via taxi, or "maybe collegues can drop you". I said no problem, assuming that if it was part of their company the area would also be fine.

Have since looked up the area and it is dodgy AF, yougov strongly recommend avoiding this and similar neighbourhoods. If you must go there you should have a local guide/security. Cabs will often refuse to pick you up from there due to high crime rate. I do not want to rely on collegues I do not for lifts in case they let me down and I am stuck.

I have agreed to the trip, although had this detail been made clear I would've said no. I feel like no precuations have been put in place, or discussed with me.

Please help me navigate this. My sister & her partner (who I live with) are being incredibly unhelpful, telling me to quit on the spot and no job is worth my life or being assualted etc etc. Obviously this is true, but I also want to maintain good working relationships and ideally not be unemployed!

Pretty pissed off tbh, anyone been in similar situations?

‘ Employer is UK based, reputable, I'm not sure if these issues have fallen through the cracks due to lack of staff’

Reputable for what?

In another life, I worked for a reputable UK employer with overseas depts. HR would not begin to place people in an area of risk without extensive consideration & risk assessment. Most likely we’d hire locally & manage through a well established branch.

‘Fallen through the cracks..’ don’t be daft.

Sorry Last one! Travel insurance will likely also not be valid if it is red FCDO zone. Most insurance companies don’t cover red, and amber is huge premium.

We've been to Mexico for DH work, long term, through UK company.

Where exactly are you going? We were mainly in Mexico City.

FWIW driving there is crazy (I did it, but was fearless in my 20s and appreciate not everyone is), I also walked around alone ;(but stuck to certain neighbourhoods), most importantly I had a local colleague, who was Mexican and who knew what was what and how to play the system (eg I had to bribe a customs official to let me leave the country due to an "issue" with my paperwork)

Love Mexico but you can't go there alone, you need a local on your side , someone who can get you out of trouble

Standard travel insurance is not valid if you travel somewhere which the FCO advises against travelling to so they won’t be able to insure you through normal channels.

My husband's firm has a branch there and they had escorts - someone was still mugged in the steps to the building which was NOT in a particularly bad area at all.
Raise it with your firm and ask what they plan to do.

From the other side of it, my cousin and a couple of his friends worked as guides for a US company, protecting their staff visiting the local facility, they flat out refused to escort women. Whilst they were brilliant at avoiding trouble, if it came to it they would have little choice but to look the other way. Escorting rich white women would be like painting a target on your back.

Good guides will be expert at avoiding trouble, but if trouble finds you anyway, very few guides will put their lives, or their families on the line for a foreigner, no matter how well they're being paid. It is worth remembering the brutal truth of it that you are only safe with a local guide for as long as they manage to dodge trouble. There are some, of course, who would intervene and try to help, but you absolutely cannot count on it.

I would do the trip but refuse to travel to the high risk area. I've lived in and travelled in many high risk parts of the world. The only place I've ever felt seriously unsafe was in Mexico, specifically parts of Mexico City. The area may be perfectly safe for a local colleague. Not the same for foreign woman.

My partner has worked extensively in Mexico and South America (as well as other parts of the world considered unsafe). Whenever he was in a dodgy area he was provided with a suitable vehicle (often bullet proof) a driver and bodyguard. He was quite capable of driving himself but the company's risk assessment wouldn't allow it. I think it is too much of a risk to go without suitable transport and protection.

I was sent to Mexico City for work and had a fabulous experience.

I did ask my HR department for a risk assessment and evaluation for my time there which involved some restrictions especially in the evening.

Uber was fabulous for travelling around the city.

I think it is right to be cautious as the biggest metropolis in the world and also to be aware of showing any signs of wealth such as expensive jewellery etc

I loved my time there

@CompassPoint

From the other side of it, my cousin and a couple of his friends worked as guides for a US company, protecting their staff visiting the local facility, they flat out refused to escort women. Whilst they were brilliant at avoiding trouble, if it came to it they would have little choice but to look the other way. Escorting rich white women would be like painting a target on your back.

Good guides will be expert at avoiding trouble, but if trouble finds you anyway, very few guides will put their lives, or their families on the line for a foreigner, no matter how well they're being paid. It is worth remembering the brutal truth of it that you are only safe with a local guide for as long as they manage to dodge trouble. There are some, of course, who would intervene and try to help, but you absolutely cannot count on it.

Interesting perspective. It makes sense.

Professionalism aside, logically, why would security put their lives at risk for the people they protect. It is just a job. Better to be alive with no job than die on the job for someone else who means nothing to them other than the next pay cheque.

Professionalism aside, logically, why would security put their lives at risk for the people they protect. It is just a job. Better to be alive with no job than die on the job for someone else who means nothing to them other than the next pay cheque.

Yes exactly, plus they will have to live there long after their job ends, and almost all, like my cousin, have family members whose safety they will naturally put ahead of any clients.
I've been on the other side too, working all across Africa, and whilst its not nice to think about, it does help you to be more aware. A local guide isn't a get out of jail free card.

Dont go OP

Lots of travel insurance is invalid if employees go to areas that the FCO or equivalent advises against travelling to (although it is possible to get it written into a policy) - if they haven't got an exemption then you would be on your own in any kind of health or financial or travel emergency.

Also by not doing a risk assessment and taking steps to ensure your safety eg providing a security escort if necessary, they are effectively breaking health and safety law (HASAW act) where they have a duty of care to ensure you are not injured at work.

app.croneri.co.uk/topics/working-overseas-and-risk/indepth

CompassPoint: Yes exactly, plus they will have to live there long after their job ends, and almost all, like my cousin, have family members whose safety they will naturally put ahead of any clients.

Do you mean that even if security personnel manage to thwart an attack by hurting or killing the baddies who go after the people they are protecting, those baddies will come after the personnel's family in revenge?

That is something that has not occurred to me before.

Do you mean that even if security personnel manage to thwart an attack by hurting or killing the baddies who go after the people they are protecting, those baddies will come after the personnel's family in revenge?

Yes. If they "interfered" or obstructed "business" at all then someone would come after them or their families to "teach them a lesson". It was one of the very first things I was taught by my parents, you do not interfere, and if you see anything you pretend not to notice, get out of there as fast as you can and deny all knowledge.

Its truly awful, but the extent of it is very much downplayed to the international community.

Most companies who take safety seriously employ foreign security/mercenary types (white South Africans were preferred when I lived there), to escort their staff. They are harder (though not impossible) to bribe or lean on and are instructed to be extremely ruthless.

Yes. If they "interfered" or obstructed "business" at all then someone would come after them or their families to "teach them a lesson". It was one of the very first things I was taught by my parents, you do not interfere, and if you see anything you pretend not to notice, get out of there as fast as you can and deny all knowledge.

Its truly awful, but the extent of it is very much downplayed to the international community.

That is gut wrenching You only have to obstruct business for you or your family to be a target for retaliation. How it must eat at a person's soul to just standby or run or turn a blind eye to crime. I assume the police are useless.

I can see why organised crime is a cancer in a community that is so difficult to destroy.

Don't go.

Is the other job still open to you? Can you take the other one instead?!

@CompassPoint

Most companies who take safety seriously employ foreign security/mercenary types (white South Africans were preferred when I lived there), to escort their staff. They are harder (though not impossible) to bribe or lean on and are instructed to be extremely ruthless.

What does 'extremely ruthless' entail?

Killing the other side? I guess legally it would be self-defence.

Yes, blueshoes it is a horrible place to live, the crime keeps everyone down. The police are usually friends or relatives, or on the payroll of the local gangs. There are some good police, but they and their families are under pressure too. There is no escape from it, the only way is to leave, and that's very difficult. I thank the stars every day that I don't live there anymore.

That's not to say people wouldn't try to help if they could, but only if a situation is starting to escalate, when it gets to a certain point your hands are tied or you are risking your family and friends.

Its a very fine line what is considered interfering - and often it just depends on the mood of whichever enforcer is sent out. Or whether you can bribe them to "overlook your transgression". Or whether the person who "interfered" has a pretty wife or daughters - if that's the case there's no getting out of it.

"Extremely ruthless" means anything goes. Maiming, killing, bribing with money, drugs etc. whatever really, the police there won't give two hoots about any of that, human life doesn't have much meaning there, but if a security group gets a reputation for ruthless foreign mercenaries that makes them not the easiest target, and so they are more likely to be left alone.

The most expensive security groups tend to have the best safety records. Some of the less expensive security groups will pick a client (almost always a woman) to throw to the wolves every so often, to keep the local crime lords sweet and to play the game so to speak. Doesn't help if you're the one being thrown, but it means most clients will get through unharmed and they get to advertise a reasonable safety record for such a dangerous place.

It really is awful, my British DH was absolutely horrified the first time I explained it all to him, its another world with a different set of rules.

Thank you everyone! I am going through waves of feeling like I can refuse to go, to feeling utterly defeated and like I have no choice.

To add some replies:

Nope, the other jobs are long gone. I'm in a competitive field, they would've been snapped up by whoever was the second/third choice. I am hoping that there is a compromise between quitting this job and being forced to go to the suburbs of death as someone aptly put it

No it's not an NGO. To the poster who said I was being daft to think the health & safety fell through the cracks - honestly I think it's the case. Due to complications that aren't anyone's fault, both my contacts are off unwell. I have been emailing the less sick one, but her replies are brief and I feel like I'm bothering her (although she does send me emails so I don't know - so difficult to judge when you're new). I haven't had a zoom/face to face meeting with anyone.

I messaged HR to ask them something else, and they firmly told me a assement needed to be done and to get in touch if I needed any questions. I do seem to be expected to do it myself though, with a team who aren't being particularly helpful with information.

That is a really good point about travel insurance being invalid and it means I can give a factual rather than emotional argument for it.

The area may be perfectly safe for a local colleague. Not the same for foreign woman.
This made me feel better, so thanks for saying it! Fundamentally, I feel guilty for it being fine for the local team to work in this unsafe environment, whilst refusing to do myself. But I really will stick out there, and as much as I would try to blend in, it's obvious I'm a (relatively) wealthy white young woman. AGH.

Yes, fluent in Spanish, it is my mother tongue :)

In the company I used to work for, who had offices across the globe, one of my European colleagues, a white male, went out to visit our Mexican office, which was in a non-touristy area, as part of his senior management role. There were actually two separate sites and he was visiting the second one with a local colleague early one evening when they were ambushed as they pulled up in the car, robbed and both shot. It is thought that he had been spotted when he visited the previous evening and they had waited for them to come back. The local colleague sadly died, but he managed to make it to a hospital to be stabilised and the insurance company then immediately airlifted him to the US for emergency surgery. He was very lucky to survive and was off work for many months recovering. The company immediately imposed a complete ban on all visits and secondments to Mexico and, although this was several years ago now, will still only employ Mexican nationals (or people who are already resident in Mexico before applying for a job) in those offices. I would seriously consider the safety implications before agreeing to this trip OP.