I actually am all for calories on menus?

[Acatnamedfox]

I hate to be that person and post in AIBU when maybe it belongs in another section BUT…

Am I the only one that is sort of looking forward to this?

I get it when you’re out and having a good time maybe birthday/party/celebration whatever you don’t want to know.

But I genuinely have no idea of the calories in things and sometimes pick a salad not realising with all the dressings I could have had the fish and chips for the same calories..

I know I’m going against the masses here but I believe it will help me make healthier decisions when out and I’m not against it!

Yes - I’m being unreasonable no one needs that kind of negativity

No - I’m looking forward to a bit of guidance.

why dont they have the option of having a menu with calories on for those who want them? I get some people dont care or would find it difficult, but for many people, including me, it would be really helpful.

@myislandhome

More's the point - how many people go out to eat and would like to just choose what they would like to eat vs how many choose based on just choosing the lowest calorie item on the menu. And if you are camp 2 - why?

I aim for somewhere in between. I make choices where I try to balance what I would really like (which in truth would be everything, and to excess) with what is reasonable for me in calorie intake and not too unhealthy. So, not necessarily the lowest calorie item, but certainly in a choice between two meals I fancy, the lower calorie one would win for me. Why? Because I don't want to be overweight, and if I ate to my appetite and preferences, I would be; and not being overweight matters more to me than unrestricted eating. Why do I go out to eat with that attitude? Well left to my own devices I wouldn't choose it as a leisure activity. But most people do, so it's necessary as part of my social life.

@CounsellorTroi

I actually cannot fathom how people can eat a 12 inch pizza by themselves. I can’t, but am still overweight.

Oh, I could do that in the day, and even now, maybe.

Job on my feet always moving fast & heaving heavy things around. I walked 30 miles one day. 8-10 hours of cycling, including up & down a lot of hills. 2 hours swimming. Etc.

Not displaying calories on a menu is like not displaying prices.

"Adults should know what a meal costs and why should the rest of us have the price shoved in our face just to help them?!" "Seeing the price of a meal makes me anxious and guilty about having it, I just end up getting the cheapest item on the menu." "If I see prices on the menu it takes me back to a time in my life when I was living in poverty and brings back all the negative feelings"

At some point we have to acknowledge that this is a helpful move for the majority. Calorie information has been on every shop-bought food for years, it's already on most large chain restaurant menus. For all the doomsaying from fact activists and ED pressure groups, this will be a minor change that most people will ignore, a few people will find helpful, and even fewer will find harmful.

Thing is, ready meals etc and many other foodstuffs have had calorie counts on them for donkeys years.
I don't see the difference tbh.
I do see a nation of people who are ready to moan about everything.
Next Vanity sizes tell me I'm a 10 when H&M and Zara tell me I'm an L or XL.
Yet it's the latter we complain about because it offends our sensibilities.

Half the population is fat (me included btw) but we're not allowed to put calories onto menus because people will be upset.

Schools attempt to introduce healthy eating by "nazi policing" lunch boxes yet it's their fault not the parents who have made the children obese in the first place.

It's always down to somebody else here.

I'm a size 16. I could do with losing a couple of stone.

No, it's not Zara's fault.
No, it's not the menopause (though that didn't help)
No, it's not my metabolism

It's because I eat too much.

@Hont1986

Not displaying calories on a menu is like not displaying prices.

"Adults should know what a meal costs and why should the rest of us have the price shoved in our face just to help them?!" "Seeing the price of a meal makes me anxious and guilty about having it, I just end up getting the cheapest item on the menu." "If I see prices on the menu it takes me back to a time in my life when I was living in poverty and brings back all the negative feelings"

At some point we have to acknowledge that this is a helpful move for the majority. Calorie information has been on every shop-bought food for years, it's already on most large chain restaurant menus. For all the doomsaying from fact activists and ED pressure groups, this will be a minor change that most people will ignore, a few people will find helpful, and even fewer will find harmful.

X- post

Excellent last paragraph.

People need to take some responsibility.

@myislandhome

More's the point - how many people go out to eat and would like to just choose what they would like to eat vs how many choose based on just choosing the lowest calorie item on the menu. And if you are camp 2 - why?

I'm camp 3 - When I go out to eat I choose what I want to eat regardless of whether it's "fattening" or not, however, I have suffered with disordered eating for many many years. Having easy access to the calorie amount of the entire dish would make me stop, feel shame at choosing a dish with "so many calories" and then choose something else.

This is because the little voice in my head that probably won't ever go away, will make me feel massively guilty for choosing what I really wanted. It would make me feel ashamed and would ruin my night. I don't have control over that voice and I'm someone who has never been diagnosed with an eating disorder, I just know from my own behaviour that I don't have a healthy relationship with food.

As an example, I went out for my anniversary a few months ago and had half a baked camembert in red wine as a starter, a duck leg/chips/salad as a main and a chocolate fondant as a dessert. I drank 3 glasses of wine and had a coffee with a biscuit. I was absolutely stuffed and satisfied. 5 years ago, that would've sent me into a tailspin. But I've worked on myself enough now that I didn't feel that shame or guilt because I was able to put the calories out of my mind and enjoy myself. Had the calories have been next to each dish on the menu, I would've felt shame. Had the calories have been in a page in the back of the menu, I would've felt compelled to turn the pages and take a peak, which would've caused me to feel shame. Had the calories have been in an entirely separate menu, away from my eyes and hands, I would've been able to ignore it and carry on with my evening and not feel shame.

The point being that it's not black and white, it's not always a case of a recovering anorexic person fresh out of therapy who will be traumatised by it. It's also pretty ok day to day people who have had issues in the past that they're dealing with, who will be made worse with calories being printed next to the dishes, or even in the same menu.

I don't know when we all stopped realising that compromises exist, but there is a way to make all people happy here, rather than either or.

I am certainly not obsessive with calories but if I am trying to decide between two things on a menu, with all else being equal, I think I'd probably opt for the lower calorie option as I'm trying to lose a few pounds.

Lots of pp have said that restricting calories doesn't work. It doesn't work in isolation. But a calorie deficit is the only way to lose weight and this is a useful extra piece of information alongside other things of course.

I like the idea that people have more information around their choices. I don’t think calories are the be all and end all but it is useful information and encourages people to think more about their choices. I also hope that this will encourage restaurants to have a more balanced menu with different types of food cooked in different ways.

A lot of really interesting points made. I think I'm in the 'overall positive' camp however one thought that has just occurred is whether the calories on menus might skew people's overall idea of what makes up an acceptable intake, regardless of the advice simply because so many unremarkable sounding meals are enormously calorific on menus. They are way over the daily advised allowance in some cases. This could lead to a counterproductive effect with regards to obesity. I wonder if some people might start thinking 'ok, well 1500 cal per meal sounds about right'.

@Snoopfroggyfrogg

A lot of really interesting points made. I think I'm in the 'overall positive' camp however one thought that has just occurred is whether the calories on menus might skew people's overall idea of what makes up an acceptable intake, regardless of the advice simply because so many unremarkable sounding meals are enormously calorific on menus. They are way over the daily advised allowance in some cases. This could lead to a counterproductive effect with regards to obesity. I wonder if some people might start thinking 'ok, well 1500 cal per meal sounds about right'.

But the recommended average daily intake is widely known surely. It is already on almost everything you buy in a supermarket.

I agree, I find it helpful. I don't calorie count as such, but if I was dithering between a few things on the menu and one had double the calories I'd avoid it.

I'm on a 1000 cals a day regime, so it's a useful tool for me. I know what I can and can't have, buy if I'm on a treat day, I will just cut down the next day and maybe have 800 calories. Its amazing what you can eat for 1000 calories per day.

I understand it will be difficult for those with/ recovering from eating disorders. However for me personally I think it’s a great idea. I have struggled with my weight and as a short, menopausal woman with some thyroid problems my calorie allowance is quite low. The only way to avoid putting on weight, even with lots of exercise is to deprive myself a lot. Subsequently I avoid going out. This is already helping as I have looked at a couple of menus and some of the lower cal options aren’t as bad as I was expecting so I can incorporate some meals out in my daily allowance. As a result I am actually thinking of going out to dinner next weekend for the first time in months.

I genuinely don't care and I strongly suspect outside of Mumsnet, most other people won't either.

And before anyone says 'Well you cared enough to post', I think 'I don't care' is a perfectly valid answer.

I am happy they have this now - better than trying to guess if tracking.

And may also mean places introduce lighter options - like pizza expresses pizza with hole in middle. Not just for caloirie counting but better option for say quick work lunch when you don't want to feel sleepy all afternoon.

No-one said fish and chips is healthier than a salad but it's absolutely not the case that fish and chips is 'devoid of nutrition' as was claimed nor is it automatic that a salad is healthier than fish and chips, eg Caesar salad is a bit of lettuce, plus cheese, croutons and creamy sauce that in a chain restaurant is likely to be very processed rather than made fresh.

Yeah, the point about calories vs nutrition is a valid one, but fish and chips v salads is the wrong example to use. Fish is packed with nutrients, chips aren't devoid of them though obviously not the healthiest option, and then in a restaurant it's often served with peas too. If you want a treat meal, which people frequently do when they eat out, there are worse options for the calories, nutrition and how full it leaves you.

As for the calorie printing policy, I can see that it'll be good for some people and bad for others. I agree with posters who are sceptical that it'll achieve much at a population level. But it fits very well with a government who are much keener on the idea that we tackle obesity through personal behaviours and responsibility, rather than considering our increasingly obesogenic society and what inconvenient things might need to be done to best fix that.

@abbey44

As a diabetic, I'd much rather see grams of carbohydrates listed on menus - it'd help me work out how much insulin I need instead of guessing and hoping for the best. Even with decades of practice, it's hard sometimes to get it right, especially when you're eating out.

This.

If they can include calories how difficult could it possibly be to include carb count, too

It's like people who claim drinking a can of coke is healthier than a smoothie. Calories aren't everything, nutrition is.

This is exactly why I would like to see an accurate breakdown of carb counts as well as other nutritional information.

I absolutely agree about the importance of nutrition over simple calorie count. The fact that there can be more sugar and calories in a can of coke compared to a smoothie is important information which can be useful when choosing what to consume.

Anyone thinking that a commercially made smoothie mostly consists of fresh vegetables is most likely labouring under a misapprehension which it would be useful to have corrected.

I think a big part of our obesity crisis is the amount of food children are given including the endless snacking. Also the amount of food adults think they need - you see it on here all the time, people saying they need to eat all the time, there’s not enough food at weddings etc etc

@LuckySantangelo35

I think a big part of our obesity crisis is the amount of food children are given including the endless snacking. Also the amount of food adults think they need - you see it on here all the time, people saying they need to eat all the time, there’s not enough food at weddings etc etc

Luckily the Tories have a plan to address this, by making people so poor they can't afford food and they can't afford to heat their homes so will have to use more calories staying warm

I don't have an eating disorder but I find it adds stress to eating out. We went to Pizza Express at the start of the Easter holidays, kids choice. All I could see were the calories. Didn't matter that we'd had a busy date, that I'd barely eaten. I chose an option with low calories which I didn't particularly want and then left two thirds. We're going out tomorrow with dh's family and I'm already dreading it. Dh says that he'll order for me but I don't think I could cope with that either.

My biggest fear is that my attitude will impact my kids so we'll eat out less to avoid it. At home I can eat separately/tell them I'm not hungry to excuse small portions but in a restaurant I'm stuck.

If you can't order food you want to eat from a menu without that amount of stress, then you do have an eating disorder because that's not normal behaviour.

Rationally, we all know that food has calories and that pizza isn't low calorie.

But don't they still do the Legera with salad? That's quite a light meal for a restaurant, by anyone's standards.

It's not good enough guidance and that is a big problem.
Access to the full nutritional details would be much better.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils

I don't have an eating disorder but I find it adds stress to eating out. We went to Pizza Express at the start of the Easter holidays, kids choice. All I could see were the calories. Didn't matter that we'd had a busy date, that I'd barely eaten. I chose an option with low calories which I didn't particularly want and then left two thirds. We're going out tomorrow with dh's family and I'm already dreading it. Dh says that he'll order for me but I don't think I could cope with that either.

My biggest fear is that my attitude will impact my kids so we'll eat out less to avoid it. At home I can eat separately/tell them I'm not hungry to excuse small portions but in a restaurant I'm stuck.

This sounds like disordered eating though.