I actually am all for calories on menus?

[Acatnamedfox]

I hate to be that person and post in AIBU when maybe it belongs in another section BUT…

Am I the only one that is sort of looking forward to this?

I get it when you’re out and having a good time maybe birthday/party/celebration whatever you don’t want to know.

But I genuinely have no idea of the calories in things and sometimes pick a salad not realising with all the dressings I could have had the fish and chips for the same calories..

I know I’m going against the masses here but I believe it will help me make healthier decisions when out and I’m not against it!

Yes - I’m being unreasonable no one needs that kind of negativity

No - I’m looking forward to a bit of guidance.

On the other thread about this, I saw people quoting that only 12% of people have eating disorders, so basically sucks to be them and we shouldn't make accommodations for the minority group. But surely that's only 12% of reported eating disorders. I know plenty of people who definitely have disordered eating, myself included, who haven't sought help. Calorie counting is the first step of an eating disorder picking up intensity in a lot of cases, so surely the number will just rise and rise with this being an extra "push". Itll also affect teenagers who already have massive pressure on them to be perfect, so will mess with their mental health.

I think the solution is to make menus without calories the norm (as it already is) but have the option of having the menu with calories listed. Two options, everyone is happy.

@GooglyEyeballs

I'm glad to see it and I am a recovered anorexic, some behaviours just never fade though. I find it much more anxiety-inducing trying to order from the menu and having no idea how many calories are in each meal. If I don't know how many calories are in something and I eat it I end up overthinking and obsessing over what I've eaten that day and how to balance it out tomorrow etc.

I agree with this. I'm more likely to struggle to eat something that I don't know the calorie content of. I tend to vastly over estimate the caloric values in food I haven't prepared myself, and feel I have to reject them, so this will help me.

Just because schools have got rid of vending machines

I was a teacher for 25 years. As soon as vending machines went, certain kids would buy and flog mountains of sweets. It happened every day.

@GooglyEyeballs and @5128gap - I also agree.

I've had an occasionally relapsing ED for soon 30 years. It won't ever go away completely, and I've made my peace with it. I can live quite healthily the vast majority of the time, (and during relapses focus on damage limitation and quickly getting back to my normal) and a large part of it is being able to reassure myself that the foods are eat are "okay" most of the time. I don't aim for perfection, but I at least want to know the imperfections.

Eating out is hard. Eating out is easier in places where I can look up menus beforehand online and reassure myself that even the "bad" dish I might want is not the end of the world. If there's no calorie information, my ED brain will just automatically assume it's bound to have three days' worth of calories in it.

Me too OP totally. I cannot afford to put on any more weight. It takes me so long to lose it. I chose what I thought was a medium calorie meal at westherspoons and the menu stated it was almost 1000 calories so I chose something else. The listed calories really help me. I have a disability and can't exercise much so calorific intake is rely important for me.

I quite like having an idea
I don't eat out much, so when I do I'll not be paying any attention to how many calories I'm consuming (I have a blow out every now and again) but it's interesting to see how many calories it takes to make a salad tasty

Yes I agree - many people have absolutely no idea that a pizza often gives you a full day's calories.

Restaurant food is often loaded with things that bump up the calories so even if it's a lower calorie dish at home, it's going to have loads more when eaten out. Even a side salad is often so covered with dressing it just drips off it!

Er, fish and chips is not 'very limited in nutrients'. Fish = protein, potatoes have plenty of vitamin C and the dish is often served with peas = vegetables and fibre.

I still think the salad would be better nutritional value. And if the fish is served deep fried in batter the calorific difference might not be that great.

@NightmareSlashDelightful

I really feel for the restaurants and chefs/kitchen assistants having to jump through these pointless hoops.

I also think it's low-quality data masquerading as useful information.

Threads like this aptly demonstrate that many people don't actually understand what healthy eating looks like, and will overly focus on calorie content as a determiner of health, or as the only vector in choice-making. This is the germination of disordered eating. (There's a difference between 'disordered eating' and an eating disorder.)

Calories are a useful metric, but they're only a fraction of the picture. In a place like Pizza Express, for example, you'd have people zoning in on calories but ignoring things like (for example) the processed ingredients, type of bread flour used, sugar in the dressings, provenance/quality of the vegetables used, and so on.

What's more, whilst in a basic sense the human body works in a certain way, at a more granular level everyone's gut biome/digestive system is different. So different people metabolise and use food energy differently.

It's also (incidentally, not by design) sexist. Calorie counting is an affliction that impacts women predominantly. So what will end up happening is you'll have women and girls up and down the country sitting in restaurants feeling shame and pressure around food choices, while the men (largely) crack on without even thinking about it.

If I'm in Pizza Express, I know that I'm in for eating refined carbs be it in a pizza base or pasta. If your mind is on nutrition as a whole, you probably wouldn't walk into Pizza Express, and if you do, you'll probably go for something with more vegetables rather than meat feast or something with side salad. Going for a broad range of nutrients is easier to guestimate than the vast range of calorie differences that "pizza" can have.

Calories and broader nutrition are not an either/ or. Some people prioritise one, some people look at a balance of both aspects.

People can be obese on loads of "empty" calories. People can be obese on varied, nutritionally rich diets. Better to be well-nourished than not, but better still to be well nourished and make sensible choices about how much energy your body needs and having a reasonably balanced lifestyle.

People can be obese on loads of "empty" calories. People can be obese on varied, nutritionally rich diets. Better to be well-nourished than not, but better still to be well nourished and make sensible choices about how much energy your body needs and having a reasonably balanced lifestyle.

Better not to have an underactive thyroid and arthritic knees as well

Omg I didn’t even think of that side of it, was just being selfish and thinking how easy it would be to log stuff. That actually has slightly changed my opinion on it, there’s going to be so much extra work, although if consumers benefits maybe it will be worth it for them.

Reading everyone’s points and comments too. This is such an interesting thread. So much to think about/ different views xxx

"I still think the salad would be better nutritional value."

Our vegetables have one third of the nutrition that veg pre 1970 had. So it depends on what's added. We need carbs and fat, so you just adjust the rest of what you eat.

I welcome the calories on menus. I'm struggling with my weight in my 50's. My generation was the first to embrace frozen food and during the late 80's, the calories and cheapness started to rise. So 89p pizzas with 1200 calories in. Packs of pasties etc. But they aren't filling. You can eat three meals a day but be eating 3000+ calories. How many calories we eat does determine weight. If you been obese and are over 25, you need to be aware of calories and calorie count. Until you get to about 35, you might be able to somewhat get away with the calories with a bit of movement.

"People who want to obsessively restrict themselves to a set number can work that out for themselves"

How?

I like it too, OP. There’s nutritional information (including calories) on all food labels, not sure what the difference is.

I actually cannot fathom how people can eat a 12 inch pizza by themselves. I can’t, but am still overweight.

I've got 2 stone to lose and some guidance on calories would make a difference to me I think. I nearly ordered a burger in a cafe attached to a gym recently, it had calories on the menu and I was horrified when I realised how many calories there were. I chose something else but equally tasty.

I know it will be stressful for some people to see calories beside everything though

If I'm going out for a meal it's a treat, I'm not calorie counting. If I wanted to do that I'd eat at home.

I think it could act as a sort of quality control. It's easier to make a poor quality meal more palatable than one made with fresh veggies, just by using lots of fats and sugar. Food that is really high in fats will have a great mouth feel, so we will tend to choose it over food with a more reasonable energy content - making people aware of the calorie content kind of levels the playing field a bit?

I mean, those really high calorie dishes are made that way because they sell. It changes our behaviour, so that we are engaging in behaviour that runs contrary to our long term interests. I will choise to eat high calorie stuff occasionally, but I need to be aware that a food is really high calorie before I can make an informed choice.

@CounsellorTroi

I actually cannot fathom how people can eat a 12 inch pizza by themselves. I can’t, but am still overweight.

One bite at a time. (I did a 14" once to win a bet.)

There are never easy or clear answers to an issue like this. Calorie counts appear pretty much everywhere now - not just on menus so they are unavoidable but they definitely don't tell the whole story in terms of diet.

More's the point - how many people go out to eat and would like to just choose what they would like to eat vs how many choose based on just choosing the lowest calorie item on the menu. And if you are camp 2 - why?

When I was in full swing disordered eating, I used to have 2 choices:
"what i would choose if I chose what I would really like to eat from this menu"
and
"what I am going to choose based on what I know is lower in calories".

Who wants to play that game ?