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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Ambulance and A&E performance drop to lowest levels on record

146 replies

JC544D · 14/04/2022 19:06

Ambulance and A&E performance drop to lowest levels on record

Are I being unreasonable in saying that this is the worst that we can ever remember it?

I used to think that if you called an ambulance in an emergency, that they would come rushing. That's what the emergency services are for.

Sadly, I don't think that this is any longer the case. It feels that today, you are just going to have to wait, if they even turn up at all. The same applies to the other emergency services.

What happened?

OP posts:
GoadyToady · 14/04/2022 19:13

Dickheads ringing 111 with chest pain is a factor, they get escalated almost every time to 999.

Who then arrange an ambulance when someone could have took the patient to A&E in the first place. I had someone moan to me recently, “we waited 3 hours for the ambulance so I drove him to A&E myself”

Why didn’t you just bloody do that in the first place?

I’m not defending the whole system, handovers are a nightmare I know.

But no doubt someone will be along to mention the Tories soon. It’s like MN bingo.

chisanunian · 14/04/2022 19:15

I'm not surprised, considering that it is impossible for anyone to ever get a GP's appointment. Things get to the point where the patient can't carry on without seeing someone, so they end up in A&E.

Two people I know personally have had to do that very thing in the last 24 hours.

Spiderysummer · 14/04/2022 19:20

My GP sent me to A&E for something I'm sure they would have dealt with pre covid. They are still not wanting to see people face to face at my GP surgery so I think A&E suffers as a result.

ScruffGin · 14/04/2022 19:20

The main issue is a lack of community beds and care homes. Our hospital has over 100 people stuck there waiting. That means the rest of the hospital gets full, the new patients back up in A&E, and then ambulances have to wait outside, so can't get back out to people. It's certainly the worst I've seen it

Steelesauce · 14/04/2022 19:22

Someone waited 13 hours on the floor with a broken hip in my service last week. Disgusting and I put in a safeguarding referral. It's not right that this is happening at all.

Neolara · 14/04/2022 19:22

I had to call 999 a few weeks ago on a Saturday night. I was on hold for 10 minutes before anyone spoke to me. Very alarming.

Steelesauce · 14/04/2022 19:24

My friend also works for the ambulance service and states if their first job is a hospital job, they aren't doing another job all shift as they will be sat in the hospital ambulance bay waiting to be let into a&e. They are often doing shift change in the ambulance bays.

helpfulperson · 14/04/2022 19:26

The 'let's just live with covid' mantra. I work for a council and we have so many staff who are not ill enough to be in hospital but too ill to be at work. Its not just a cold or flu, it's more akin to a severe chest infection/pneumonia.

lljkk · 14/04/2022 19:27

I'm not sure targets are useful. They have only existed ~20 years, right? What was service like in 1970s-80s-90s?

Agree getting self to health care not via ambulance has a lot of merit.

Brieandcamembert · 14/04/2022 19:28

Problem is no one looks after themselves any more. People eat badly, don't exercise so the NHS money all goes on preventable illness.

Also people go to A&E with the most ridiculous things. I've seen tonsillitis in A&E FFS.

SaggyBlinders · 14/04/2022 19:34

What happened?

Is this a serious question?

Years of Tory cuts affecting the entire healthcare system with knock on effects on other services, covid, and some pointless political targets. Like being in and out of A&E within 4 hours, regardless of what you came in for.

jgw1 · 14/04/2022 19:34

@JC544D

Ambulance and A&E performance drop to lowest levels on record

Are I being unreasonable in saying that this is the worst that we can ever remember it?

I used to think that if you called an ambulance in an emergency, that they would come rushing. That's what the emergency services are for.

Sadly, I don't think that this is any longer the case. It feels that today, you are just going to have to wait, if they even turn up at all. The same applies to the other emergency services.

What happened?

The trouble is the ambulance drivers are probably like teachers and nurses and too busy partying at work.
SaggyBlinders · 14/04/2022 19:38

Also agree with @Brieandcamembert. And it's only going to get worse, with the cost of living going up and the negative way it will affect people's physical and mental health.

And for people saying they can't get a GP appointment, there are lots of walk in centres around. I took my nephew the other week for tonsillitis, and there was no one in the waiting room!

Original poster
JC544D · 14/04/2022 19:41

It's very sad to feel that you are in a situation where if you call the emergency services, you don't expect them to turn up any time soon, if at all.

I lived through the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s and for the first time in my life, rightly or wrongly, I feel this is the case.

OP posts:
MargaretThursday · 14/04/2022 19:43

Nearly 5 years ago I called 999 on what I would have thought was an off-peak time (midday weekday) to be told there were no operators available and to put the phone down and try again later.
That happened 3 times before I got through. When I did get through we established probable stroke and urgent ambulance. I was told to expect an ambulance in 2-3 hours.

Strains on the NHS are nothing new.

Original poster
JC544D · 14/04/2022 19:46

5 years ago is not time, and very relevant to today.

OP posts:
Original poster
JC544D · 14/04/2022 19:46

'no time', sorry

OP posts:
LillyDeValley · 14/04/2022 19:49

Just googling and records only began in 2007. I say this because I remember being a child in the 80s and 90s and one of Blair’s promises was to get wait times down. You would regularly hear about people being in A and E for 14 hours etc. So no it’s not the worst time, but that doesn’t mean it’s ok now.

The problem is the nhs is treated like a sacred cow. The only solution ever given to put more money in and the reality is that isn’t enough.

Problems we have (and this is not everything):

  • Care home crisis (can’t get staff, low morale) so major bed blocking in hospitals
  • People not using services appropriately/struggling to get access in the community
  • Covid cases
  • Consequences of covid (people left health conditions cause they were scared to go to doctors, treatments were cancelled etc)

We need whole scale reform. We need to be able to discuss models like Europe without people screaming we will become like America. We have to be realistic about what can and can’t be funded

LakieLady · 14/04/2022 19:53

MIL was very ill before Christmas. She's very stoical, and kept telling everyone it was just a cold.

She got worse and worse, and 4 days in, SIL was so worried she called 111. They decided she needed admitting to hospital, and called an ambulance.

Nine hours, 3 more callbacks from 111, it finally turned up. She had pnuemonia and pleurisy, and spent 3 days in ICU. Given that she's 83, that was potentially life threatening.

Original poster
JC544D · 14/04/2022 20:03

LillyDeValley

I don't think it's just the NHS though. I think the other emergency services are seriously wanting too.

OP posts:
Spidey66 · 14/04/2022 20:05

I fell from my bike last autumn and broke my shoulder. I was on the ground in agony unable to get up as I couldn’t push myself up. I called 999 as I thought they would have lifting aids to get me up and into hospital. I was told 2-3 hour wait. I was alive, conscious, breathing, no chest pain and I wasn’t bleeding profusely so wasn’t a priority.

I managed to ring my husband and with the help of him and some kind passers by I managed to get up and to hospital.

On hindsight I realise I shouldn’t have dialled 999 and I know and appreciate they have to prioritise and I wasn’t a priority. I’m not having a pop at the ambulance service. I just feel sad that someone with what turned out to be quite a significant injury can be left like that. What if my husband hadn’t been around? I suppose it would have had to been a cab. (Which I did a couple of years back, got hit by a cyclist, huge gaping wound in my leg needing 13 stitches, got cab straight to the hospital).

crepesncream · 14/04/2022 20:12

I dont understand it, it's like everythings gone shit at the same time.

Sidhdbej · 14/04/2022 20:14

My neighbour is 80 had a stroke in his garden, his wife found him completely paralysed down one side and couldn't get him up. Ambulance wait 3 hours Sad

ZealAndArdour · 14/04/2022 20:29

The whole system is overloaded. I still triage people over the phone on a daily basis who are surprised that they feel rubbish with covid. “Terrible high temperature, all shivery, I’m achey all over, so sore”. “Have you taken any paracetamol?”, “No, don’t like taking tablets/thought I’d check with you first/haven’t got any in”. We’re actually years into the pandemic now, how does it still surprise people that they feel terrible and it causes fevers and aches?

A lot of people are very, very averse to any kind of self care or personal responsibility.

Another part of my job is to re-triage everything that 111 have advised to go to ED, we successfully divert 85% of 111 advised ED attendances away from A&E and get them sorted elsewhere or close the call with home management advice. In our area 111 call handlers and even clinicians have had the A&E departments totally removed from their Directory of Services, they aren’t allowed to send anyone without coming through us first. The A&E’s are still absolutely rammed to the rafters but they’d be much worse without this. I used to work at 111 and I’d have defended it, but now I can’t really see the point of it.

SecretVictoria · 14/04/2022 20:51

My colleagues DM had a stroke a couple of weeks ago and was told 4 hours for an ambulance.

Walk in centres aren’t accessible for everyone. My (fairly large) NW town, actually a metropolitan borough, doesn’t have one. The nearest are attached to a hospital in a town about 7 miles away or about the same distance in the opposite direction in another county inside the shopping centre. Both would cost a lot in a taxi, people don’t have £20-£30 to spend to see a nurse.

We do have an OOH clinic, but again, not in the most accessible place and you have to be referred by your GP surgery, you can’t just turn up. Our A&E is in the large hospital just on the outskirts of the town centre on a bus route so it’s way more accessible and people know they’ll be seen.