Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

[freebritknee]

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

What is your new job @YingMei if you don’t mind me asking?

I also left the UK to become a teacher abroad, luckily could move before Brexit and got a position with my UK qualifications (they aren't valid anymore but my school are keeping me on).

I work from 8am - 3.15, sometimes 4 depending on the timetable. I teach English secondary, mostly sixth form. All my planning (I teach to a textbook and don't have much planning to do), marking etc is factored into my timetable. Best of all I have a three month paid summer holiday. I'm paid quite well I think, just under 3000 euros a month gross. I love my job now and although I miss the UK I wouldn't teach there.

@Arianya

Retention and recruitment are both massive problems. Mostly because the job has become terrible for several reasons and people are hearing about it. So they either don’t sign up in the first place, or they sign up thinking it can’t be that bad and quit when they find out that actually it is.

Full disclosure: I used to teach myself. And I quit for all the reasons that have been repeated ad infinitum. Excessive workload that was so heavy it prevented me having a normal life. Then on top of that they started asking me to cover other things unpaid “for the kids, because we need those things covered but we don’t have the money to pay anyone”. Then they increased class sizes so they could reduce the number of teachers (cost cutting), the kids were squashed in without sufficient facilities and my workload increased again. Then they put an unqualified TA in the classroom next door to me and wanted me to provide her with teaching materials and supervise what she was doing - effectively teaching two classes at once, because it was cheaper than paying two qualified teachers. Then they drastically reduced SEN support (more cost cutting) and expected me to provide support on top of doing my own job. Then they asked me to adjust my lessons to use fewer resources like pens and paper and books etc because those cost money. Then they asked me to fiddle the results so things looked better on paper. I didn’t feel I could do the job properly any more under those circumstances.

That’s before you even consider stuff like lack of future prospects to progress my career and earn more (they could barely afford to keep paying me at my current level), the hassle of Ofsted, the stupid pointless paperwork, verbal and physical abuse, antisocial behaviour, and poor behaviour in general. And problem pupils were never removed, not even if they were physically mature males who threatened to rape or kill me.

I was out and about one weekend and I saw a student (fully grown male) who had threatened to wait in the car park and knife me because he hadn’t got the grade he wanted. He had already launched himself at me in the classroom and two other male students defended me and removed him from the room. So when I saw him on a Saturday in the town centre I hid from him because I was so afraid. I waited till he was gone and I ran away. And that made me realise that I didn’t want to be a teacher any more. I wanted to work somewhere where I was safe and reasonable boundaries for behaviour were implemented. Where I could do a proper job with adequate resources and normal hours, where I wasn’t asked to work for free, and I could progress over time and earn more without being made to feel like I was greedy and breaking the budget.

So I quit. I had no job to go to. I was literally so shit scared of this teenager that my husband said just quit, you don’t have to live like this, we’ll manage somehow.

This is just one story of one teacher, but thousands have similar stories of why they quit, and thousands more want to quit. The government are the only ones who can make changes but it would cost too much so they don’t bother. Honestly I think a tax increase to fund education is the only way forward, along with stricter behaviour standards and separate units to accommodate students whose behaviour makes them unsuitable for integration into a classroom environment. It will never happen though.

That is HORRIFIC, and congratulations for getting out.

My daughter, in her probation year (aged 22), was given a class of 31 students aged 10, with five special needs pupils who had no additional help, and she didn't have a TA either. Those five boys messed up the class every single day, by screaming, throwing things and being hugely disruptive. The other 26 pupils were not getting the education they deserved, because the whole situation was so unmanageable. My daughter wanted to impose certain punishments for bad behaviour (nothing drastic, perhaps less golden time), and was told that the school did not believe in this - only praise for good behaviour was allowed. Some nights I'd pick her up from school and she would cry on the way home. Yes, she was on £1900 pm, which is good for a 22 year old, but she had no quality of life. She couldn't even go out with friends, as all spare time was planning.

WhenSheWasBad - if I was the manager I wouldn't want someone telling me the new reporting system was shit. I'd want them to come and say something like 'i see why you implemented the new system. I like X about it, or y about it, but it's not working because of a, b and c. I was wondering if we could go back to the old system becuase... Or try this other system they use in X place or y place because ..' Just saying something is shit is really not helpful.

The mad thing about schools in the UK, is that there are no set lessons. So every Teacher is making up their own content for everything. What a waste of time. There should be pull off the shelf lessons for every year.
My friend works in an FE college and they actually did this. They designated several staff members to produce the resources and dish them out to everyone else. Then everyone else was told “you’re only delivering lessons not creating them, it’s a less specialist job so your salaries will be reduced - oh and also you will be in the classroom full time because you no longer need prep time, which means we don’t need all of you any more and will be making some redundant”.

To add insult to injury, my friend said she still had to create a lot of her own resources despite not being paid to do so, because the provided resources were crap and she didn’t feel comfortable standing in front of a class with those woeful materials. There were times when she was chasing the “creator” staff on a Sunday night for materials she needed to teach on Monday morning, and she would end up having to cobble something together because the materials weren’t provided in time.

As time has gone on and staff have left, they’ve been replaced with unqualified teachers, because the college felt that only the staff who created materials needed to be qualified teachers, the rest could just be TAs on term time only contracts. It’s a slippery slope to de-professionalisation of teaching.

@TortugaRumCakeQueen your daughter’s situation sounds terrible. I think it’s easier for young staff to leave though - especially if they have no mortgage, kids or financial commitments etc. Older staff who need the money and can’t afford to go back to an entry level salary in another profession are often trapped. In fact I think that’s the only reason why most teachers in the country haven’t walked already - because they can’t.

@Pumperthepumper

What is your new job *@YingMei* if you don’t mind me asking?

@Pumperthepumper of course, I am an assessor for professional qualifications. It's a little boring at times but uses a lot of teaching skills and is very flexible in terms of working from home etc. I get paid pretty well too, although not as much as I did as a teacher.

@GooodMorning

WhenSheWasBad - if I was the manager I wouldn't want someone telling me the new reporting system was shit. I'd want them to come and say something like 'i see why you implemented the new system. I like X about it, or y about it, but it's not working because of a, b and c. I was wondering if we could go back to the old system becuase... Or try this other system they use in X place or y place because ..' Just saying something is shit is really not helpful.

We asked for improvements. They came 6 months later.

It was a shit system, no point pretending otherwise. Like I said, in the real world people have a moan. This doesn’t mean they are bringing the whole team down.

Being overly positive doesn’t actually improve the situation.

@GooodMorning
No one just says "this is shit" without explaining why, and, if within their remit, offering an alternative solution.

You seem to think because you went to school you understand how schools run.

I'm another teacher who people would say loves their job. I don't shout it down to friends and I don't complain to them. More money wouldn't make the job more paletable. A change in governmental and society attitudes would.

Ah that’s good then! Glad it’s all working out for you.

Here's a story which might illustrate my point..

Team A and team B are fighting a war they didn't want to be part of. They are fighting a common enemy. The situation is not good. People are dying and the enemy is winning.

Team A are grateful they have food in their belly and clothes on their back. They believe in the cause they are fighting to defend. They work together to come up with plans to defeat the enemy. They hunt for and find some weapons and they start to fight back. They call on others to join them. They say 'come join us, we are proud of what we stand for, grateful for the food in our belly. We have more food and clothes we can give you. We believe in what we r fighting for. We have confidence and pride. We need you. We need your ideas, your solutions to help us win this war. It's a noble war. Together we can do it. The cause is good. We r proud and believe in ourselves and what we r fighting for'. More and more people join them, knowing it will be tough, but enticed by the food and clothes and the cause they are fighting for. Together they start to feel stronger, prouder, have more belief in the cause. They start to win.

Team B are flighting the same war. They are too tired to be grateful or to notice the food in their belly and clothes on their back. They watch others around them dying and leaving the army and say 'i don't blame them'. They don't talk about solutions or plans to fight the enemy. Instead they complain about their plight. They say 'why does no-one understand how hard it is for us'. 'why does no-one want to help'. 'noone listens, we need to shout louder about how awful it all is'. 'The situation is awful and we have a right to complain about it.'

Meanwhile, Team A are shouting at team B - they want to help. They are saying 'stop complaining, if you don't fight you'll all die. Rally together, come up with a plan, encourage others to join you, don't forget what you r fighting for. Feel proud'. But team B don't listen. They say they have a right to complain and will defend that right. They say they are helpless. They watch as more and more comrades leave. They ask people to help them, to join their team. No-one wants to join them as they are losing and dying and forget to tell others what they are fighting for, what strengths they have, why people should join them . They are telling those they want help from 'we r in a shit situation and are losing'. They forget why they are fighting. They forget to feel proud.

Team B wonder why their commrades are leaving and no-one is joining them. Before too long they are all dead.

The governent has taken the unions power away. It's so difficult to strike nowadays and parents don't support them

So short sighted

Wait, teachers will die if they complain?

Also, what does winning mean in this context?

It's just a story! Not to be taken literally pumper!! 🤣

But what does ‘winning’ look like?

@GooodMorning but the teachers in Team B won’t die if they quit. They’ll say “fuck this for a lark” and go elsewhere and get a job where they’re not at war, they’re treated with respect and their role is properly paid and resourced. Meanwhile Team A will waste their lives fighting a war and burning out in the process.

@Arianya

Retention and recruitment are both massive problems. Mostly because the job has become terrible for several reasons and people are hearing about it. So they either don’t sign up in the first place, or they sign up thinking it can’t be that bad and quit when they find out that actually it is.

Full disclosure: I used to teach myself. And I quit for all the reasons that have been repeated ad infinitum. Excessive workload that was so heavy it prevented me having a normal life. Then on top of that they started asking me to cover other things unpaid “for the kids, because we need those things covered but we don’t have the money to pay anyone”. Then they increased class sizes so they could reduce the number of teachers (cost cutting), the kids were squashed in without sufficient facilities and my workload increased again. Then they put an unqualified TA in the classroom next door to me and wanted me to provide her with teaching materials and supervise what she was doing - effectively teaching two classes at once, because it was cheaper than paying two qualified teachers. Then they drastically reduced SEN support (more cost cutting) and expected me to provide support on top of doing my own job. Then they asked me to adjust my lessons to use fewer resources like pens and paper and books etc because those cost money. Then they asked me to fiddle the results so things looked better on paper. I didn’t feel I could do the job properly any more under those circumstances.

That’s before you even consider stuff like lack of future prospects to progress my career and earn more (they could barely afford to keep paying me at my current level), the hassle of Ofsted, the stupid pointless paperwork, verbal and physical abuse, antisocial behaviour, and poor behaviour in general. And problem pupils were never removed, not even if they were physically mature males who threatened to rape or kill me.

I was out and about one weekend and I saw a student (fully grown male) who had threatened to wait in the car park and knife me because he hadn’t got the grade he wanted. He had already launched himself at me in the classroom and two other male students defended me and removed him from the room. So when I saw him on a Saturday in the town centre I hid from him because I was so afraid. I waited till he was gone and I ran away. And that made me realise that I didn’t want to be a teacher any more. I wanted to work somewhere where I was safe and reasonable boundaries for behaviour were implemented. Where I could do a proper job with adequate resources and normal hours, where I wasn’t asked to work for free, and I could progress over time and earn more without being made to feel like I was greedy and breaking the budget.

So I quit. I had no job to go to. I was literally so shit scared of this teenager that my husband said just quit, you don’t have to live like this, we’ll manage somehow.

This is just one story of one teacher, but thousands have similar stories of why they quit, and thousands more want to quit. The government are the only ones who can make changes but it would cost too much so they don’t bother. Honestly I think a tax increase to fund education is the only way forward, along with stricter behaviour standards and separate units to accommodate students whose behaviour makes them unsuitable for integration into a classroom environment. It will never happen though.

But….. but….. did you leave because of the pay? Because teaching isn’t all that badly paid you know 🤪

Oh well, what are we all whining about? All these larks, eh, going off to the staff room for drinkies every day? This is the life. Life goals. Achieved.

So my son doesnt have a maths teacher because the teachers that already teach moan to much. Thats an interesting take.

@TortugaRumCakeQueen
That’s exactly the problem I was illustrating. The SLT and your DD didn’t have a workable and understood Behaviour and Sanctions policy. Where I was a governor, the Head would have dealt with such issues. It’s difficult with SEN children where their behaviour is such a problem but it didn’t have to be this way. A strong Head would not have put a SLT with this class anyway. She was there because other teachers could see there was no support. This is why we’ll run schools get the best teachers. I would also advise DD to read the sanctions policy. All schools have them!

I’m not getting into war analogies.

The issue is teachers don’t have to stay and fight it out. They can choose to leave the profession instead of complaining. And that is exactly what many are doing, that is kind of the point of this thread. The retention problem in teaching.

The idea that teaching will stop leaving if people stop pointing out it’s tough job is ridiculous.

Ok, in less metaphorical terms ...

There are two groups of teachers. Both are feeling burnt out. Both are tired. Both are overwhelmed with the paperwork, long hours, overstretched resources, beurocracy, lack of freedom, pay they feel could be better.

Teacher group A says 'we r grateful we have jobs and some security when millions dont'. 'we can remember why we joined this profession and we believe in improving education for our kids'. 'we don't like how things are but we believe it's worth fighting to change things and we have some ideas of how things could be better'. 'we are proud of our profession which offers so much to young people'.

Group A try and recruit other teachers. They tell them the challenges but remind them of the cause. Of the importance of teaching, of how lucky they are to have a job and security. They show others their passion and drive to change and they appeal to others to join them, to bring fresh ideas and solutions for moving education forward. They band together, submit ideas and research to government, tell the department of education what they teach for, what they are proud of and what a good education system might look like. They inspire the next generation of teachers to join them. Young people choosing their career paths are inspired to teach, they like the ideas they hear from group A about job security. They are keen to help make a difference, to help overcome the obstacles and move things forward. They want to be part of a solution. They want to contribute their ideas. They want to join others in overcoming the current obstacles in education

Group B sit down and complain about their plight. They defend their right to complain. They forget why they joined the profession. They are not grateful for their job security. They see others with more pay and wish it was them, instead of seeing others with less pay and feeling grateful for what they have. They see the difficulties and say to others 'this is shit, I might just leave'. Instead of thinking how to improve things, they tell others how bad things are. They ask 'why does know one listen to us'. They see their colleagues leave and say 'i don't blame them'. They see people are not joining the profession and say 'im not surprised it's crap'. When young people contemplating a career in teaching ask about it, they say, 'why would you bother joining'. They don't tell them about the job security, the rewards of seeing young people flourish. They don't tell them how much they need the new ideas new teachers can bring, how much they value hearing their plans, their contributions to make things better. They don't inspire them. The say, 'we need to tell you how bad it is'. Group B are in a difficult situation and they defend their right to complain about that situation.

And this is why there is a recruitment and retention problem in education.

There need to be more 'A' teachers and less 'B'.

I'd never wanted to be a teacher so don't blame them but I think that with the upcoming financial crisis many will revise their plans and be forced to hang on in there.

Soon in teaching there will be neither enough As nor Bs to go around.