Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

[freebritknee]

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

Genuinely, what would happen if you didn't do it?

Assessments would go undone - funding would be lost In extreme cases an inspection could be triggered

I think this is one of the key things I would find so frustrating.
In my job (think junior management) i would be able to say I didn't have time to do this before my leave and was juggling a number of other priorities. Having made an assessment I'm not sure this is essential right now and I have to focus on other things to achieve xyz

That's nice. But in a school/college that would mean exam papers wouldn't get sent out; coursework would be unmarked, sent late. Students would have their exams negatively impacted. There is no wriggle room, nothing else comes first.

That's what I meant about having more independence in industry. In teaching the deadlines are immovable, increase every year and no teacher involved in assessment can hand it over to someone else because of the nature of the task.

@Pumperthepumper

Right, so we can agree it is a fallback option for some.

Why is that a problem? Why would they be any worse the job?

Do you require all doctors/nurses/ engineers, etc. to have put their job first, and not wanted to to do something else?

Ohfook you are right- Covid has been a massive wake up.
And the difference in schools after Covid is huge! So much to sort out- it feels overwhelming.

Grrrr..."AT the job".

My parent is a teacher who will quit soon. She is constantly complaining about the behaviour of the kids and parents. In my day if I did something wrong at school the school punished me and the parents did extra to ensure I never did it again. Now it's all parents trying to get children out of detention excusing their bad behaviour. Increasing the children have less self resilience so red pen is frowned upon (its not things done wrong but areas of improvement). And in the most recent class she complained about them using their SEN as a reason in their words why she couldn't tell them off or issue punishment when one swore at her. When I went to school in the late 80's/90's it seemed a lot better than it is now.

There is much greater entitlement from society today and you see it in any public facing role. People's little darlings are always right they know better than the professionals (see medicine and the police force for this too). I personally wouldn't work in any customer facing role now, too much political correctness required.

[quote DoleWhipFloat]@MichaelAndEagle

Easter holidays is traditionally the time you mark GCSE coursework. This generally has to be marked, commentary’s written, forms filled in and online exam board docs completed, ready to be sent off to the external moderator’s. The deadline for the moderators to receive this work is May 5th.
This means packaging/delivering the work by May 1st.

I suppose one could leave this important marking for the week after the Easter hols, but then you’d be juggling this crucial assessment with a full teaching timetable and regular planning and marking, which could get extremely stressful.[/quote]
I was talking about the waste of time task referred to.

@Invasionofthegutsnatchers

It's not the unions' fault although they aren't particularly helpful either

The problem is unqualified ministers and advisors setting policies and the trickle down effect. No idea what happens in a classroom on a daily basis.
Ridiculous curriculum which is completely out of touch with what children need to learn. Formalisation of everything. Ofsted. Underpaid TAs who are expected to plan, resource and assess lessons with responsibility for their groups' progress. On shit pay. Teachers dealing with increasingly challenging behaviour and entitled parents in some cases with little support from SLT. Shockingly low budgets. Performance management meaning impossible targets defining progression up the pay scale. Overloaded timetables with little time to reflect and enjoy the learning process. Tired little children often with no structure, routine or boundaries at home- I'm talking 5 year olds who might have been awake for much of the night on an ipad in bed (parents admit this a lot) then expected to do English, maths, guided reading, phonics and foundation subjects, mainly with written outcomes in books, sitting at tables when what they need to do is to PLAY and explore at their own pace

Brilliant summary.

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist

Genuinely, what would happen if you didn't do it?

Assessments would go undone - funding would be lost In extreme cases an inspection could be triggered

I think this is one of the key things I would find so frustrating.
In my job (think junior management) i would be able to say I didn't have time to do this before my leave and was juggling a number of other priorities. Having made an assessment I'm not sure this is essential right now and I have to focus on other things to achieve xyz

That's nice. But in a school/college that would mean exam papers wouldn't get sent out; coursework would be unmarked, sent late. Students would have their exams negatively impacted. There is no wriggle room, nothing else comes first.

That's what I meant about having more independence in industry. In teaching the deadlines are immovable, increase every year and no teacher involved in assessment can hand it over to someone else because of the nature of the task.

The poster i quoted mentioned a task that was a waste of time. I even highlighted it in my reply.

I was talking about the waste of time task referred to

"Waste of time" will be the doers opinion of it. The SMT who set it to be done would consider it extremely important, urgent. They may even have reason to, but would never share it with the teacher doing the work because that is never done, they like to maintain a level of opaqueness.

And I am really not kidding!

A lot of 'waste of time tasks' are indeed in existence because of someone else's appraisal target and/or desire to prove themselves for a promotion. This has become more and more obvious to me over the last 10 years or so.

Not doing them has consequences.

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist

I was talking about the waste of time task referred to

"Waste of time" will be the doers opinion of it. The SMT who set it to be done would consider it extremely important, urgent. They may even have reason to, but would never share it with the teacher doing the work because that is never done, they like to maintain a level of opaqueness.

And I am really not kidding!

Sounds like SMT are a huge part of the problem. Not just from your reply, but repeatedly mentioned in the thread.

I would hate to be a teacher and would never encourage my children to do it. Which is a shame as it should be a rewarding job.

I think we are heading for a crisis here, surely.

@SonicBroom where on earth did you get that from? When I worked FT at the top of the pay scale I was on £37k. I'm an average teacher - not in management etc. Where did you get £55k from?!

UPS3 is currently just under £42,000.

I take home £2,376.

[quote Covidwoes]@SonicBroom where on earth did you get that from? When I worked FT at the top of the pay scale I was on £37k. I'm an average teacher - not in management etc. Where did you get £55k from?! [/quote]
In order to make a comparison with other professions the average teacher salary was taken, pension contributions included and then multiplied up to cover the holidays you currently have as a teacher but would be paid for working.

That's how it was reached (not by me).

So to compare the level of responsibility, stress etc with a 55k role elsewhere was the rationale.

But the SMT are at least partly doing it because of the pressure put on them by their MAT boss, or the DfE, or Ofsted. Sure, as a head, you could say 'no, we won't do this pointless admin task that Ofsted values, because it's shit' (though even at a non-MAT, you might find your governors have something to say about this, and they're the people who actually appoint you). Then what happens? Well, you may well get an RI in your next Ofsted inspection. That will bring with it a whole ton of additional scrutiny and paperwork, which will make your working life even harder than it was before. Parents will start voting with their feet, and choosing the Good school down the road. You will start losing numbers, which translates directly into budget - you only need to lose about 6 pupils in a school of 2,000, and you're down a teacher's salary. So then you're even less able to run the school you want, because you're in financial crisis (and by now you've probably lost your job).

Ticking that stupid Ofsted box suddenly doesn't seem so stupid.

What a mess it all is.

Echt, being a fallback option means we’re not recruiting teachers who go into it because they really want to do it. And teaching is different from those jobs because it means you’ve gone from primary school, high school, Uni and then back to a school. So your experience of being in any other environment is very limited.

@EasterBunnysLittleHelper

There are many unqualified teachers in our schools, particularly the academies as they can employ whoever they like to teach. It used to be the case that a degree was required but now you just need a pulse.

The pay is only relevant if lack of pay is why people arent joining or are leaving. Pay might be why people dont join because an newly qualified teacher doesnt earn near average for the profession - but does essentially do the same job but without experience to guide them through it. So a new entrant in the first few years is most likely to feel like they could earn more for less stress. A longer standing teacher might now feel rewarded for the work financially but are burning out so are saying workload not pay is an issue.
Its no point saying other jobs have more workload or less holiday than the imaginary maths teacher my son doesnt have. I dont know why people are so keen to ensure children cant access good teaching by saying it well paid, not stressful and teachers are moaning by leaving or not even joining in the first place, rather than looking at why that is and changing it.

Do you realise the damage you are doing to the reputation of the teaching profession by using that term 'fall back option'? It's the attitude that I believe many in government have. How ironic that you are commenting on a thread debating the reasons why so many teachers are thinking of leaving. Why single out teaching as being a fallback option?

I think we are heading for a crisis here, surely.

We've been at a crisis point for years, but because Gove allowed unqualified teachers into schools, children aren't being sent home because there is no one suitable to teach them.

I was thinking earlier about how people are far more aware of the crisis in the NHS than in schools, and it's because of this issue. If there isn't a surgeon, your operation is cancelled. We know about the cancellations and huge waiting lists. We know about the missed targets. We know when we can't see a doctor and we know when we are given an appointment with a nurse instead.

Where are the government targets for children to be taught by a qualified teacher? Targets for children to be taught by a permanent teacher rather than a string of supply teachers? There aren't any, and when this happens to children, parents are generally not even told. The cracks are not visible.

The country massively ran out of teachers this term just gone because of covid. Schools couldn't get hold of supply teachers for love nor money. Tens of thousands of children were sent home in partial school closures. Many, many other children were sat in halls in collapsed classes being supervised while watching documentaries or doing other busywork to keep them occupied till a lesson where a teacher was actually available.

Did it make the news?

Ticking that stupid Ofsted box suddenly doesn't seem so stupid.

Which is why most teachers comply. Doesn't mean it makes more time appear, or the task any easier to fit into an already crammed day. The fear of Oftsed is a very effective motivator!

Oh god, I totally agree!! I was just answering the question someone asked (perfectly reasonably): what would happen if you just didn't do the pointless tasks?

@noblegiraffe I think you're 100% right. You also see some of the reason in the rise in home tutoring. Lots of parents are 'filling in the gaps' with tutors. Not only are they not outraged that they have to do this (which I really don't understand), they are in some cases actually grateful that they're able to use this as a solution rather than 'having to' pay for private education. It's insane.

@teacherwife

Oh god, I totally agree!! I was just answering the question someone asked (perfectly reasonably): what would happen if you just didn't do the pointless tasks?

I think that question made quite a few of us react strongly