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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

848 replies

freebritknee · 11/04/2022 14:04

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 12/04/2022 01:45

It's interesting to read the complaints of teachers. They are overall very similar to what teachers here in Canada complain of, and what I hear from those in the US and Australia as well.

It seems very similar in all the English speaking countries. All kids streamed into the same classes no matter how disruptive. Not enough good help for struggling kids. Too many kids per class. Too much time spent recording and testing. Not enough teacher autonomy. Stupid political curricula that change for no good reason. And so on.

Vgbeat · 12/04/2022 02:05

I can completely understand why. Three days in to a week off and all I've done is work on a completely waste of time task ordered by the head and only half way through . Not even got to my planning yet and not done anything yet with my child.

rolllan · 12/04/2022 02:21

How can you put a price on a good teacher! They are like gold dust. But a teacher who's not interested or valued is pointless for the kids. The fact it's compulsay for every child to attend school until 18 now they need to
Invest in bettter teachers. Look after them so they look after the kids

echt · 12/04/2022 02:29

@Changeee1546789

Unions have no power left due to legislative changes to the trade union legislation culminating in the 2016 Trade Union Act.

Stop voting Tory!

Quite.

Unions can only act as group on pay and some aspects of safety at work. The government has no obligation to involve the unions at all in determining conditions of service.

That is why T&C are so shit.

MeasureTwice · 12/04/2022 03:44

The on-the-job training was what convinced me I didn't actually want to teach. I haven't once regretted that decision in the twenty years since. From what I read and hear, the same problems that gave me pause are only worse, now.

TomPinch · 12/04/2022 04:45

I remember teacher friends of mine being under a lot of pressure regarding paperwork and admin a quarter of a century ago. I was told about a meeting in which someone was droning on about some new requirements and worn-out staff were asking when they'd have the time. No answer. This was 1999.

TomPinch · 12/04/2022 04:51

@MangyInseam

It's interesting to read the complaints of teachers. They are overall very similar to what teachers here in Canada complain of, and what I hear from those in the US and Australia as well.

It seems very similar in all the English speaking countries. All kids streamed into the same classes no matter how disruptive. Not enough good help for struggling kids. Too many kids per class. Too much time spent recording and testing. Not enough teacher autonomy. Stupid political curricula that change for no good reason. And so on.

As far as I know NZ is a little better, or so I've been told by people who've taught there and in the UK. The danger is that the NZ government tends to hire ex-UK civil servants into senior positions, and they bring over the latest newly-out-of-fashion shit idea, normally involving a lot of admin. The UK Civil Service seems very keen on excess admin.
partystress · 12/04/2022 05:20

@RagzRebooted teacher training varies hugely in type and quality. Some is far too ‘in at the deep end’, while other routes can leave you completely under-prepared for the reality of having the responsibility yourself.

The government has ‘reformed’ early career teaching. In theory new teachers have a longer induction period and more structured support. In reality, the changes have created a confusing mess, don’t address the real issues, and have increased the workload for the experienced teachers who mentor the new ones.

The majority of teachers who leave don’t leave just because the workload is horrendous (which it is: it was my third career, and by far the hardest). They leave because putting those hours into a system which:

  • is failing most children
  • measures success in the most crass and inappropriate way
  • shifts the goalposts randomly, and
  • is so micromanaged that any hope you have of being creative or giving children what they really need shrivels to dust
is completely soul destroying.
EasterBunnysLittleHelper · 12/04/2022 05:40

@MajorCarolDanvers

It's a good thing.

There are clearly lots of teachers who hate their jobs. That's not good for them or for children.

They should leave and do something else with their lives.

What's then needed is plenty of recruitment of new teachers.

That is nuts. How is that good?

We, the public, are paying for year after year of caring enthusiastic teachers to be trained. The government and its utter failure of a system pushes each fresh recruit towards silly targets & mental ill-health and expectations where they work ten hour days. They drop out, clinging to the last scraps of their mental health, and we train up another crop.

It's about time we had reform and started positively supporting teachers.

EasterBunnysLittleHelper · 12/04/2022 05:46

This is pretty shocking that many "teachers" are unqualified TAs and parents are unaware..

Dairymilk50 · 12/04/2022 05:50

@Silverclocks

I've worked with teachers who've been planning to quit for the last 20 years. The reality is the salary is nowhere near as bad as they think it is, when they start looking for alternative work.

I wish they would go, instead of just talking about it though. Staying and moaning/kidding themselves they're leaving is doing no one any good.

If the unions are at fault, it's because they've managed to get the job so well paid it's hard to leave Grin

Exactly this. Its not a teacher thing... I think doing any job for 20 years you've earnt being able to feel like you want to quit!
CheesecakeAddict · 12/04/2022 06:38

@Dairymilk50 it's not just those who have been doing it a long time that are quitting, it's the younger end too. Given we can't just magic fully qualified teachers out of thin air to replace those that are quitting and retiring, this is more serious than parents realise. The government doesn't care because the public demonise the teachers for not coping instead of wanting better for their own kids. In the meantime, the children of the government are not having this issue. Ultimately this will cause the divide between rich and poor to widen as the state school continue to scrape together whichever bodies they can and displacing teachers to teach subjects they know nothing about (which I see often with languages, science and maths).

Absolutely no one on this thread said we are the only ones with no work-life balance, micromanaging etc. But those companies with high staff turnover rate or unable to fill vacencies full-stop don't tend to flourish. Education is no different.

DoleWhipFloat · 12/04/2022 07:20

Teaching is not my first job, but I’ve been doing it a very long time (20 years).

Over that time, I’ve met and mentored people who came into teaching from the corporate world who have been wonderful teachers and others who have been shit. Likewise, I’ve met teachers who started teaching straight from uni who were excellent and others who were very weak. I don’t think it makes much difference to be honest @JangolinaPitt and is very much down to the individual.

Anyway, as I say, teacher is not my first job. Before teaching I worked in retail management and I also worked in the service industry. The biggest difference was that in my other jobs I didn’t bring home as much work, but those jobs were far less enjoyable. I love teaching (not the paperwork).

As I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten wiser and these days I say ‘no’ to a lot of extra work. (Not important stuff that benefits my kids, but pointless extras such as becoming the department ‘numeracy champion’). Being the only specialist in my subject area and teaching primarily KS4 and KS5, I guess it’s easier for me to do this as I’m not replaceable at the drop of a hat. But I remember my earlier years teaching and the desire to impress, do well, get on, meant that 60-70 hour weeks was a reality and I earned less than £20,000 at the time. Some teachers, particularly new ones, just can’t get past that stage in their careers and quit within 5 years.

I work in Wales and Welsh Gov are playing with the holidays. One idea floated is to reduce the summer to three weeks and add a week into Oct half term, Christmas and Feb half term.
Teaching mostly GCSE and A level, I do come in during the holidays (except summer) to hold revision sessions. It’s both an ‘expectation’ and I’ve never really minded as I like the teaching part of my job. But, I do not then, do any work over the summer….that is my reward.
If Welsh gov piss about with the holidays, that would indeed end my teaching career. That summer holiday is the carrot for me. I’m waiting to see what happens.

MichaelAndEagle · 12/04/2022 07:21

@Vgbeat

I can completely understand why. Three days in to a week off and all I've done is work on a completely waste of time task ordered by the head and only half way through . Not even got to my planning yet and not done anything yet with my child.
Three days in to a week off and all I've done is work on a completely waste of time task ordered by the head and only half way through .

Genuinely, what would happen if you didn't do it?
I think this is one of the key things I would find so frustrating.
In my job (think junior management) i would be able to say I didn't have time to do this before my leave and was juggling a number of other priorities. Having made an assessment I'm not sure this is essential right now and I have to focus on other things to achieve xyz.

DoleWhipFloat · 12/04/2022 07:28

@MichaelAndEagle

Easter holidays is traditionally the time you mark GCSE coursework. This generally has to be marked, commentary’s written, forms filled in and online exam board docs completed, ready to be sent off to the external moderator’s. The deadline for the moderators to receive this work is May 5th.
This means packaging/delivering the work by May 1st.

I suppose one could leave this important marking for the week after the Easter hols, but then you’d be juggling this crucial assessment with a full teaching timetable and regular planning and marking, which could get extremely stressful.

DoleWhipFloat · 12/04/2022 07:31

Oh and if you have 3 GCSE classes with a combined 68 pupils coursework (NEA) to assess, that’s a lot to juggle. Each pupil’s work takes around 30 minutes to assess and to write up the commentaries/complete the cover forms. Im quick at this as well.

MatronicO6 · 12/04/2022 07:35

I will be leaving the profession this summer after 10 years. I have been contemplating it for the last five.

It is something I have been torn about as I actually love the teaching element of it. I have got to work with some amazing kids and families and have found their progress in learning and as people by far the most rewarding aspect of the job.

However the workload, constant changing of goal posts, new schemes and last minute urgent expectations have wore me down. It is relentless and what is even more frustrating is the complete lack of awareness of how incompetent this government is in regards to education policy and support. They are continuously increasing demands whilst decreasing the budget to meet them. Hence why a lot of children are being taught by unqualified 'teachers.' The general public seems to think when teachers raise these issues we are moaning and entitled and have it easy with our pay and holidays.

At this point, I am so disheartened, frustrated and emotionally and mentally drained. The thought of doing this for another 30 years is grim. It's sad but not at all surprising that so many teachers feel the same and as parents you should be very alarmed by these figures as they are indicative of an education system that is not working.

It is time the general public stop viewing schools as free babysitting and question their MP's about what is going on in education and the impact their policies/curriculum and budget cuts are having on children.

Sswhinesthebest · 12/04/2022 07:41

I’d never go back to teaching. I enjoy the part time, teaching assistant job I do now because I love being with the kids and being in the classroom environment, but I’d never again want the stress of a full time teaching job, I’m lucky they my dh’s pay allows me this option.

Teaching is relentless stress, a huge workload and very little thanks, even for bloody good, dedicated teachers.

Piggywaspushed · 12/04/2022 07:42

Three week summer holiday Shock. Am now imagining airports ...

manysummersago · 12/04/2022 07:43

It’s perhaps not a bad thing the unions have no power - has anyone seen the crap peddled by the NEU?

To be honest, the unions have never done much - maybe once, I don’t know, but when I needed their help in 2008 my experience was they start off very stern and robust sounding but then just encourage their members to resign!

I’m really not enjoying it at the moment, though. If I could find something else I would, but I can’t find anything else that pays the same so I am stuck with it.

RedHelenB · 12/04/2022 07:44

@freebritknee

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

WHy blame the unions?
SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 12/04/2022 07:49

@JangolinaPitt

I have worked in both sectors and am now a teacher. Massively less stress than in the corporate world and long holidays. Most teachers haven’t worked outside education and have no idea of the reality of a job where you do absolutely work long hours but don’t have the holidays. There is also a tendency to assume that they could command a higher salary elsewhere but not a massive demand for embittered ex-teachers who want an easy life. I would not recommend that anyone goes into teaching straight from university, but as as second or third carer is a very palatable alternative to the stresses of the corporate world.
Of course many of us worked in industry prior to becoming teachers. Long hours, good pay, and far more independence.

The assumption about "embittered ex-teachers who want an easy life." says far more about the people who say such things than the burned out teachers who leave because the job has no care for them.

CMZ2018 · 12/04/2022 07:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 12/04/2022 07:50

@Pumperthepumper

Right, so we can agree it is a fallback option for some.
Bloody hell, the bone has been acknowledged, stop gnawing at it!
ohfook · 12/04/2022 07:50

I go in and out of a few different schools for my role and one common theme I've noticed is that a lot of teachers rediscovered their enjoyment of teaching during covid because a lot of the unnecessary things were taken away- book scrutinys, data meetings, learning walks all went yet most people felt their teaching improved once they could focus on just teaching. Now that these things have returned, people are rethinking their priorities.

Also teaching practice at uni does not prepare you for being a teacher again it's like all of the best bits (being in class, delivering lessons, assessing learning, then planning your next steps) with none of the pointless crappy bits.