I think the current government should ban the smacking of children!

[JC544D]

I think the current government should ban the smacking of children!

The issue is much more nuanced and complex than smacking = evil and violent. I'm sure a lot of desperate parents on MN have shouted at their children and scared them, which for me is something I remember a lot more negatively as a child than being smacked!
So do I, although I've never really thought of it until TheTonEffect said this.
Does the Welsh law ban any physical touch, such as a hand tap?

@TheTonEffect. Violence against children is not nuanced. In schools, any form of physical punishment is against the law. No justifying it by saying it is 'light tapping'. It is wrong.
Many people who have been smacked, go on to smack their children and just like a man who justifies hitting his wife because she drove him to it, there are people who justify hitting their kids. So many tragic cases recently of child abuse at the hands of parents. Most ( almost certainly all) of the the parents who have been jailed for child abuse, have themselves been abused as children. Their own childhoods will have been completely dysfunctional.
It is why schools constantly reinforce the message that any form of violence is wrong.
Sadly, There is now plenty of evidence that, during lockdown, the number of cases of child abuse rose significantly. Schools are so important in terms of safe guarding and protecting children.
Children who are hit go on to hit others. The cycle of abuse. There has to be a two pronged approach to dealing with violence in any form. Education is vital and by and large it is successful. However, the law has to be clear that violence in any shape or form is wrong. Smacking will become illegal in England and will follow the example set by Wales and Scotland and most other European countries. We will look back at a time when people thought it was acceptable and be horrified that it was ever allowed. Just as we have seen the law change on domestic violence and rape within marriage, within a generation physical violence against children will be remembered with horror and disgust.

It's a good point though that as a child I'd have been a lot less upset at being smacked than being screamed at, which I often was.

Charles Darwin, Voyages of the Beagle, witnessed the caning on the hand of a seven year old slave boy for some misdemeanour . It is so upsetting to read his account of this. He said, 'Thank God , I will never again visit a slave country'

quotepark.com/quotes/1920784-charles-darwin-i-thank-god-i-shall-never-again-visit-a-slave-cou/

Of course, many many people of his time justified this kind of violence against small children, Thank God, today we are all repulsed and disgusted by the unspeakable violence used against slave children.
I cannot understand anyone today supporting and condoning the use of physical punishment, However 'light', it is morally wrong and something that we are already rejecting as a society.

It should have been banned years ago. It is abuse, plain and simple.

I thought it already was - whichever though,,anyway to try to protect children I will fully support..

@JC544D

I think the current government should ban the smacking of children!

But why is it the government's fault?? Can people just not smack/abuse children? Or am I missing something. Why do the government have to differentiate between morally right and wrong.

Once something is against the law, there can be no justifying it any longer. There are plenty of people on here who support violence and intimidation of small children.
It is distasteful and unacceptable when posters try to justify violence by minimising it as a light tap. We wouldn't accept it between two adults so why allow a large adult to intimidate and physically frighten a small child.?

@TheTonEffect same here. Shouting caused me distress when I was a kid and I definitely remember those times.

Here is the thing - a law that doesn't get used is not really that useful. If we look at countries where it is against the law, you don't see that it is really used a deterrent in cases where it is just smacking. One of the basic principles of good lawmaking is that you only make laws you can and intend to enforce. They aren't just signals of what is socially ok or not.

It's already illegal to physically abuse or beat a child. And yes, there is a difference between a smack that is not intended to cause harm, and a beating that is.

We could also ask what a law like this could lead to. A few people have mentioned that they found being yelled at more stressful than being smacked. If you look at groups that are very anti-smacking, many go on to say, and these other punishments are also equally stressful - time out, taking away toys or privileges, yelling, etc. Whether or not these are very good methods, if we can show they could potentially cause as much harm as smacking to a child, are we comfortable wit the idea they also might be made illegal.

What is the potential for, say, an emotionally abusive parent to accuse another parent of smacking in order to cut off access?

The other thing I'd say is the research on the effects of smacking is pretty ambivalent. It seems to suggest that it's mainly damaging to kids when it's not common, in societies where it is common kids aren't so negatively affected by it.

Laws should really as much as possible be based on evidence.

@MangyInseam I agree with everything you said.

In jurisdictions where it's been introduced it is very rarely prosecuted and hard to meet the criminal standard of proof. It is very commonly abused by people with an agenda, such as separating families.

It disproportionately impact new migrants who come from countries where smacking is just part of normal and good parenting. It causes rifts in migrant families where the parents don't know it's 'bad' here, the children who have better English go to school and find out it's 'illegal', the next time their parents won't let them go out or buy them an iPhone they can call the cops and cause strife. Not their fault, teenagers are dramatic etc and don't understand consequences.

It's a bullshit solution.

If government cares about healthy safe families then they should invest in more maternity support, more social services, better education etc.

It will do a lot more than criminalising something that was considered perfectly normal 30 years ago.

I thought they had tbh

At least in Scotland and Wales, children will now be given the same protection against assault as adults.

You are being very hopeful if you think the current government will do this.

"It's a bullshit solution. "

No it's not. Making something illegal sends out a strong message that a particular action is not tolerated. We don't allow adults to assault other adults, we should certainly not allow adults to legally do the same to kids.

You can literally apply the "oh, what's the point?" argument to any crime. It's a stupid argument.

@CapMarvel

"It's a bullshit solution. "

No it's not. Making something illegal sends out a strong message that a particular action is not tolerated. We don't allow adults to assault other adults, we should certainly not allow adults to legally do the same to kids.

You can literally apply the "oh, what's the point?" argument to any crime. It's a stupid argument.

Making things illegal just to send a message is considered bad law making. And it ultimately ends up with poorly written laws that aren't effective, and a bad attitude towards the law in the public and by the authorities, who know many of the laws are not enforced, don't make practical sense, and then the authorities are in the position of deciding which laws are "real" and which aren't.

That is not what the law is for.

Nobody should be slapping children. It shouldn't require legislation for this but, if it does, go ahead ASAP.

Yes absolutely, removes some grey area as regards physical abuse. Sets a standard for parenting.

It's already against the law to leave a mark they lasts longer than 10 minutes... I provide evidence of a mark that lasted overnight and was told no judge would action it unless it happened repeatedly. So unless the law is upheld better than that, it is utterly meaningless.

@Sometimeswinning

I disagree, the abuse of children is never acceptable

Smacking is legal. Beating children is illegal. Emotional abuse is not even acknowledged. Why do i assume you have no clue what you are talking about? You can argue with posters on here all you like. It doesn't help. Get a job where you work with children. That's the only way you will make a difference.

Suggest you consult the new Domestic Abuse Bill. Emotional abuse is covered in this and also now children can be specifically identified as victims of domestic abuse in their own right. There are some changes afoot hit the cynic in me says they will take forever to embed if at all.

Sadly I don’t think banning smacking will change much since those that deploy it are largely beyond reach of such societal or legislative pressures. Anyone that uses corporal punishment as a form of behaviour management with their child won’t stop because it’s made illegal
And sadly children’s services can barely deal with the tip of the iceberg right now so reports of smacking need to be either pushed up the abuse agenda or see token short lived and probably meaningless interventions take place

I was smacked as a child, although just as, if not more effective was being pulled aside in a shop/public place and being told (in a particular telling off voice) never to again. That usually made me cry, and was worse than a smack imo.
I have never smacked my own children but I have lost the plot with them before and felt really guilty afterwards. I can still remember one day when DD was about 6 and I completely lost it with her. She went to school in tears , I was in tears. I still feel awful about it 10 years later. I've no idea if she remembers it.
I do think it is socially unacceptable to smack children, and while I think children should be protected I wonder how it is policed or whether more children will be protected if it was made law. If anyone on MN questions or judges another person's parenting, they are overwhelmingly told to MYOB, so would people report ? (more so than now, for instance).
I can think of a lot of instances of current laws that almost no one would be brought to account for, because the likelihood of being caught, fined or reported is so low.
Agree that more support (financial and public perception) for SS to support families where children are at potential risk is key.

Why do people who defend the smacking children say vocal abuse is worse.

As if those who smack children don't use both?

Apparently, according to some, those who physically smack their children are absolute saints when it comes to emotional and psychological abuse of their children and would never dream of doing that to their children too.

Somehow, I suspect that's not the case.

I very much suspect that those parents who physically abuse their children through smacking, are very likely to emotionally and psychologically abuse them too.

The bottom line in my opinion is that in England, the smacking of children in England should be banned! There is absolutely no excuse for it in 2022!

Why do people who defend the smacking children say vocal abuse is worse

No-one is actually defending smacking. They are pointing out their own issues from childhood when it comes to abuse.

I'm still waiting to see what you are actively doing about this? Other than saying the same thing over and over on this thread.

Sometimeswinning

"No-one is actually defending smacking."

Good!

I'm very glad to hear that you are for the current government banning it!