Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To put in a complaint about this housing officer?

134 replies

NetflixMom21 · 08/04/2022 10:36

On the housing register. Owed a complete homelessness relief duty and have an urgent need to move because of violence within the home and high medical needs for both me and children. Just been put forward for a property the other side of the county to be closer to family who can provide support for all of this.

Every time I have been nominated for a property the rules change, for example, this time round was proving residency for where my family members live. A few weeks ago they accepted bank statements, now they are saying they do not. I have provided every bit of evidence they need but it seems like the goal posts move dramatically every few weeks whenever a property comes up, so I questioned this on my portal and expressed my frustration at the rules seemingly changing whenever I get offered a property. (In my past experience of them, they are just an extremely challenging and rude team of people anyway).

This morning I got quite a confrontational phone call from one of the workers saying they didn’t appreciate turning up to work and seeing my message first thing this morning (I literally just questioned why bank statements were accepted a few weeks ago but not now). They then went onto say that I am ‘leapfrogging’ people who live in the area and have been waiting for years and so on. Well I doubt many of those people have experienced trauma and violence in their home and have high medical needs which is why they are still waiting and not on a higher band…

She was rude, confrontational and insensitive - almost making it seem like I should be thankful that I have taken a house that other people in the area should be entitled to instead… without taking into consideration all the shit circumstances we have which is why we have to leave our lives behind and move to a different part of the county…

I’m so tempted to put in a complaint… but is it worth it?!

OP posts:
Bearfrills · 08/04/2022 13:35

It's incredibly naive to think this. You really believe their reduced rent covers all the costs? Dream on.

Council housing pays for itself via the rental collected and, in the case of older properties, has paid for itself many times over. A lot of council properties arent that much cheaper than comparitive private rentals and some of them are actually more expensive, the difference between social housing and private housing is that there is no markup to cover mortgage costs, letting agents fees, etc. The trade off is that properties are often older, can be fairly basic, and are almost always unfurnished and uncarpeted. My LA'S housing revenue account in the last year collected approx £36 million in rent and their total expenditure on their properties was around £29 million - this includes spending in the current refresh they're doing of roofing and kitchens.

ForTheLoveOfSleep · 08/04/2022 13:41

@Brefugee

I think you sound a tiny bit entitled. You are extremely lucky to get a LA house.

i'm sure OP is deeply thankful that DV has lead to her getting a house near her family. Deeply deeply thankful.

Don't be so ridiculous. Clearly I meant she is lucky that LA homes are available. Not that she is being offered one because of her lucky circumstances. Honestly I just despair at the ease people are offended.

@hundredmilesanhour It's incredibly naive to think this. You really believe their reduced rent covers all the costs? Dream on
Our local authority actually gained a £2m profit from social housing 2019-20. Which was reinvested in building/improving social housing. It's not that LA have a reduced rent rate. It's that private landlords inflate rents.

Sluj · 08/04/2022 13:43

I think you are forgetting the buildings insurance cost, the income collection and recovery costs, the management cost, the compliance checking, the fire risk assessments, the administration of lettings and tenancy changes, dealing with ASB, court costs etc. I could go on and on but there are many more costs than just repairs. The annual gas servicing alone would cost nearly 3 weeks worth of rent.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 08/04/2022 13:50

@HundredMilesAnHour

The tenants will have also been paying for it via their rent payments as rents cover the costs of running/managing the property.

It's incredibly naive to think this. You really believe their reduced rent covers all the costs? Dream on.

Actually, tenant rents run at a profit on the balance sheet. They more than cover the costs. It's the law. All the costs, maintenance, repairs, etc, all have to come out of the revenues from rent and benefits. Councils are not allowed to put in any additional funding, though, so where private maintenance companies charge enough to make a profit of their own, that money comes directly out of what the tenants as a whole have paid - the more the companies charge, the more the pot is depleted.
ivykaty44 · 08/04/2022 13:51

@Hospedia how many properties?

Hospedia · 08/04/2022 14:02

how many properties?

Dunno. Ask the OP maybe?

I think you are forgetting the buildings insurance cost, the income collection and recovery costs, the management cost, the compliance checking, the fire risk assessments, the administration of lettings and tenancy changes, dealing with ASB, court costs etc. I could go on and on but there are many more costs than just repairs. The annual gas servicing alone would cost nearly 3 weeks worth of rent.

Checked the Housing Revenues Account for my council and that's all accounted for, even with all of that included their Housing account is in profit by over £8 million and I can see that is the case with other posters councils too. Face it, council housing pays for itself. The evidence is there in black and white.

ivykaty44 · 08/04/2022 14:05

@Hospedia I did ask and you pointed out that question had already been answered?

Mangogogogo · 08/04/2022 14:10

So as others have said the houses will be owned by different housing associations, livin etc. so they have different rules.
In my professional experience housing officers tend to be fucking mint or absolute shite.
Do you have anyone professionally supporting you? I find complaints from my clients go nowhere but when I do it on their behalf it goes far.

Hospedia · 08/04/2022 14:15

I did ask and you pointed out that question had already been answered?

She didn't say how many, just that she'd turned some down as they were unsuitable in terms of disability needs. Maybe RTFT?

Schuyler · 08/04/2022 14:23

I don’t care how difficult or stressful the job is, one should always be professional. I’m an adult care social worker. I see people when they are going through a crisis. It can be a thankless job and people take out their frustrations on me but I don’t expect them to grovel at my feet. I remain professional and polite. If I feel overwhelmed, I vent to a colleague or talk about it in my supervision sessions.

OP doesn’t have to be grateful or appreciative. She is entitled to a service delivered professionally.

DeeCeeCherry · 08/04/2022 14:29

I spent some years as a Housing & Homelessness Officer. IME women who are in desperate need to move home yet are reasonable and try to do all by the book, are shafted. It got on my nerves.

The ones who stood up for themselves (& I don't blame them) + weren't afraid to write to their MP and/or seek Judicial Review, were helped much faster. Managers don't want a Members Enquiry landing on their desk, do they?

Most people in desperate circumstances leading to homelessness do not approach with aggression. & nor are they more likely to than any other demographic.

Martyr syndrome around a job one is paid to do and carry out in accordance with the Housing Act, is tedious. Housing Officers don't own the homes only allocate them. & that's to be done according to the law. Unfortunately if someone decides they don't like the look of you then they'll mess you about. But they can't change the law to suit themselves.

OP yes you should complain. A Housing Officer has no more right than anybody else to disrupt your chances of moving into a safe home, nor talk down to you.

However in your shoes I'd just contact MP and get them to liaise. Don't be afraid that this will scupper your chances. Of course it won't, at all.

MN is a strange place to ask this question though as there does tend to be snobbishness towards social housing tenants so you'll no doubt be convinced that you should accept what's happened, in know your place fashion

biggreenhouse · 08/04/2022 14:42

@Bearfrills it takes around 50 years for rent to even be enough to break even on the cost of building a council house (I run a development team)

Tabitha005 · 08/04/2022 14:55

It's probably six of one and half a dozen of the other in this scenario, isn't it? OP is frustrated and so is the HO. With everything happening out in the world these days, I'm surprised many of us can function as sunshine and roses even part of the time. That doesn't excuse poor behaviour, though.

I spoke to my energy provider yesterday and asked the call centre agent how he was. He said the environment was 'horrendous' and he and his colleagues are getting shouted, screamed and sworn at all day long. He was massively surprised I'd asked how he was and said no caller had ever asked him that before. Poor bloke. I put them phone down thanking my lucky stars I have a job I enjoy.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 08/04/2022 14:58

[quote biggreenhouse]@Bearfrills it takes around 50 years for rent to even be enough to break even on the cost of building a council house (I run a development team)[/quote]
How?

£750pcm over 50 years = £450,000.

Actual cost of a small 2 bed flatpack = far less than that.

ivykaty44 · 08/04/2022 14:59

Hospedia I did read the thread, perhaps read the question before answering

Hospedia · 08/04/2022 15:51

it takes around 50 years for rent to even be enough to break even on the cost of building a council house (I run a development team)

The majority of council housing stock was built prior to 1971.

Hospedia · 08/04/2022 15:51

And it must be doing more than breaking even seeing as my councils housing account is in profit.

Mickarooni · 08/04/2022 16:05

It’s irrelevant if the Housing Officer is stressed. They can and should address this with their line manager and organisation. The OP is the one is the most vulnerable position and the power imbalance certainly isn’t in the OP’s favour. When you’re a professional, you put your own stresses to the side. I appreciate we are all only human but professionals need to rise above it.

@NetflixMom21 YANBU to put in a polite but formal complaint. Good luck Flowers

LegMeChicken · 08/04/2022 16:19

Are calls recorded?
Has she been polite to you so far?
Complain if there’s proof

TimBoothseyes · 08/04/2022 16:39

[quote biggreenhouse]@Bearfrills it takes around 50 years for rent to even be enough to break even on the cost of building a council house (I run a development team)[/quote]
Mine has been here around 48 years (I remember it being built as it is on land that my parents LA house overlooked). The amount of rent paid in all those years more than covers what this place is worth.

gogohm · 08/04/2022 17:36

@Bearfrills

Except a large proportion of tenants do not pay their rent themselves. It comes from universal credit so effectively we taxpayers are subsidising council housing. I think we should have council housing, more too but you are naive to say it makes a surplus.

As for @NetflixMom21
I know they may not have been perfect but you have turned down 2 houses, where I live that would put you to the back of the queue in your band. There will be other high priority families waiting too, alas dv is not uncommon. I'm sorry you are in your situation but for the council you are one of baby needy families and they don't have enough housing to meet everyone's requirements

NeverDropYourMooncup · 08/04/2022 18:34

[quote gogohm]@Bearfrills

Except a large proportion of tenants do not pay their rent themselves. It comes from universal credit so effectively we taxpayers are subsidising council housing. I think we should have council housing, more too but you are naive to say it makes a surplus.

As for @NetflixMom21
I know they may not have been perfect but you have turned down 2 houses, where I live that would put you to the back of the queue in your band. There will be other high priority families waiting too, alas dv is not uncommon. I'm sorry you are in your situation but for the council you are one of baby needy families and they don't have enough housing to meet everyone's requirements [/quote]
In 2000, the sixth social security report stated this;

'Indeed there is now no net basic housing subsidy for Council tenants; and Council tenants' rental income in England and Wales currently contributes some £1.5 billion per annum towards the costs of Housing Benefit for the sector.'

Hansard in 1981 records this (truncated to get less of the politicking and more of the facts);

The result of all this freedom is that many councils are steadily amassing surpluses on their housing revenue accounts—or, to put it crudely, making profits out of their council tenants. Until the Housing Act 1980, it was illegal for local authorities to make profits out of their council rents, but the 1980 Act abolished Labour's no profits rule. Moreover, it allowed councils to transfer those profits to the general rate fund—or, again, to abandon the Secretary of State's discriminating use of language, to use the profits on their council rents to subsidise the rates of ratepayers who are not council tenants, and who have average household incomes 20 per cent. above those of council tenants.

There is, for example, the district of South Oxfordshire in the constituency of the Secretary of State. Its average council rent is £15.30 a week—34 per cent. above the national average. These huge rents provide a profit of £407,000. All of this profit is transferred to the general rate fund, and this enables the lucky 8,665 council tenants of South Oxfordshire to contribute 90p a week each to reducing the rates of the other 35,000 ratepayers.

Let us take the example of Tonbridge and Mailing, in the constituency of the Minister for Housing and Construction. This year, the Tory council there put its rents up to £14.75 a week—29 per cent. above the national average. In doing this, it has accumulated a profit on council rents of over £1 million. Tonbridge and Mailing could have used that profit constructively—for example, to provide decent accommodation for homeless families. At present, the council exiles its homeless 20 miles away to Gillingham, where they are permitted to count their blessings in squalid bed and breakfast accommodation, the breakfast consisting of several days' provisions dumped outside the inmates' rooms in carrier bags.

However, Tonbridge council is more prudent than to squander its profits on council rents in this improvident manner. Instead, it uses most of them to subsidise rates. The 7,000 council tenants in Tonbridge each pay £2.30 a week extra to subsidise the rates of the borough's 23,000 other householders.

The Minister might refer to the 22 per cent. of households which receive rent rebates and those which are helped out with their rents by the Department of Health and Social Security.

In that record, there are comments from a conservative MP.

The question of surpluses on housing accounts was also raised. I am not one who believes that we should put surpluses towards the general rate fund. I have reservations about that. I believe that that money should be used to do up the houses. It is important to keep our housing stock in good condition. Far too much council housing is in a bad state. The surpluses should be used directly for the benefit of the generality of council tenants by doing up the housing stock.

And further on, we have

Houses built pre-war or immediately post-war cost about £400 or £500 each. The outstanding debt charges on them are negligible, as is the cost of maintenance and management. Therefore, the houses cost the local authority far less than it receives in rent. In general, rents increase to keep pace with inflation, even for older houses.

One of the advantages of the pooled rent system is that money from the older houses is used to help subsidise the building of new houses. It is wrong to penalise those who have lived in their homes and paid rent for 30, 40 or even 50 years. Indeed, Conservative members use that argument to justify their right-to-buy legislation.

The Minister has not dealt with the fact that the majority of tenants still do not receive rebates. Of those who do, the majority do not have all their rent paid. People get rebates only because their income is so low compared with the rent.

This was in 1980.

Taxpayers (and Social Housing tenants also pay tax, many work, all pay through indirect taxation) are only funding private landlords. Your issue should be with them and the way the property market enables them to charge so more than it costs to maintain a property.

They are literally arguing about what to do with the profits made from council housing and that they were being increased to make an even greater profit to fund other things than their construction and maintenance. Not that there aren't any, but that there are and what they should be used for.

biggreenhouse · 08/04/2022 18:45

@NeverDropYourMooncup your sums are too simplistic. councils and housing associations need a value of large plots of land at once for building multiple houses. there's hundreds of thousand of pounds in just architecture and site investigation fees. then buying the land, planning, staff costs for every area of the council that runs the housing.. from development teams for the length of your tenancy , from legal, procurement, to neighbourhood officers, grounds maintenance officers, yearly insurance.

maintenance costs for the life of the property, kitchen, roof renewals etc etc it just goes on.

At the moment there's 20k per house to have to retrofit the heating to meet the new standards - that's a lot of rent to collect from one house just to meet that 1 maintenance item.
Housing associations all need to get 40-50k grant per house from Homes England on top to even get schemes to be remotely viable long term.

PreparationPreparationPrep · 08/04/2022 19:01

"This was a service that would cost a normal customer between £300-£600 but the tenants used to get it free because the HA or council were covering the cost. How is it that those customers that were paying were friendly and polite yet those getting it for free weren't?! Of course I'm not talking about every tenant but I'd say 70-80% were horrible" ConfusedConfused

Free! Really ? Honestly tenants do not get it free they pay rent, service charge and that includes for a repairs service which is often shoddy at best, maybe because social housing landlord staff look down on the tenants because they are paying a subsidised but not free rent for often poor quality housing, and unkempt communal areas. Poor sound insulation and in relative comparison to private tenants who usually have better quality homes abs safer neighbourhoods. Yes we pay subsidised rent and this is reflected in our standard of living. If I could afford to choose I know I would prefer to pay more for a better quality of life!

mmmmmmghturep · 08/04/2022 19:22

Hello Testing