To wonder who funds a teacher's school trip

[iwasjustwonderingreally]

My daughter went skiing with her school in February half term.

Four teachers accompanied them.

Do teachers pay for themselves, or a contribution, (I appreciate they are working though), or is the cost to the pupil inflated to cover the cost of the teachers?

@beattieedny

I also know that it is, in our area, the teachers who set up the trips. If they don't want to go, don't.

Yes, it's usually the teachers who decide where to go. It normally ties in with a topic. So what happens if no teachers want to go/ can't afford it? Do the kids just miss out, or do the parents take them?

On school trips, there is often 1 free place per 10 paying students. But even if there isn't (or there are extra costs) the school usually rolls that cost into the pupils' cost. Depending on the trip, carers for SEN children are often free, too.

The teachers are allowed a bit of time off during the trip. If there were 4 of them, the others could cover.

On a ski trip, even when the pupils are in ski school that is only part of the day. And the teachers are still on-call, if anything should happen (eg an accident where a student needs a teacher to accompany them to hospital or whatever.)

Yes. Or the school are transparent about how the teacher's place is funded. Holidays are not a human right.

Other parents of children that attend, hence why a ski trip costs an arm and a leg for each child. Never a lack of willing staff to go though. The ski resort provide the tuition (more cost) and the teachers enjoy themselves skiing, that particular trip is a doddle and one that is oversubscribed for teachers and generally seen as a perk. Plus they get the time off in lieu... winner winner

@beattieedny

Yes. Or the school are transparent about how the teacher's place is funded. Holidays are not a human right.

The parents take them without staff?

@Femalewoman

Other parents of children that attend, hence why a ski trip costs an arm and a leg for each child. Never a lack of willing staff to go though. The ski resort provide the tuition (more cost) and the teachers enjoy themselves skiing, that particular trip is a doddle and one that is oversubscribed for teachers and generally seen as a perk. Plus they get the time off in lieu... winner winner

This is exactly correct. Some teachers on here acting like they are being selfless in going. Are they hell, lol. Yeah, it's not easy as a holiday but it's only the well behaved kids that get to go, and it's usually fun and /or easy.

Where are these schools giving time off in lieu for accompanying trips???

No, I mean the trip doesn't mean happen. It's not a necessity.

@beattieedny

No, I mean the trip doesn't mean happen. It's not a necessity.

Why don't the parents just take them?

@beattieedny

Yes. Or the school are transparent about how the teacher's place is funded. Holidays are not a human right.

What is opaque about it? The package costs include flights/travel, hotels, trips, guides etc - why would anyone assume they are not covering the costs of the adult supervisors required for the trip? Do they assume childminders, nannies, coaches etc should all give their time free "for the children"?

Definitely the school pays. No offence to parents or kids but my idea of hell on earth would be supervising 20 kids skiing for a week in France or wherever. 24/7 on duty, nightmare. I'm guessing they get no overtime or say as to whether they can opt out of going. Sounds grim.

Hats off to the amazing teachers who do it and I hope one is along soon to say how cool it is!

@KindergartenKop

The pupils pay for the teacher.

It's not a holiday! They have to make sure 50 teenagers don't do anything stupid for a week! Who do you think gets up at 3am and gets the girls out of the boys' room? Who takes johnny to the hospital when he sprains his ankle?

If the girls are in the boys room then they're not doing a very good job.

@Femalewoman

Other parents of children that attend, hence why a ski trip costs an arm and a leg for each child. Never a lack of willing staff to go though. The ski resort provide the tuition (more cost) and the teachers enjoy themselves skiing, that particular trip is a doddle and one that is oversubscribed for teachers and generally seen as a perk. Plus they get the time off in lieu... winner winner

I have never worked at a school where time off in lieu is given to a teaching member of staff, even when the trip runs over an easter holiday. Who is planning and covering their lessons for them when they're off? Does the person covering their lesson then get time off in lieu?

Secondly, why shouldn't a teacher enjoy themselves on a trip and if it is skiing, get involved? Do you think they should just stand about being miserable the whole time? I confused.

You don't have to send your children if you do not want to.

Outraged by this thread. When you go on holiday with your own childre do you ever have a drink? Have you ever been in a hotel with your teenaged children and having had a drink in the evening been over the limit to drive? Indeed have you ever consumed alcohol when supervising your children at home?

@MrsHamlet

Where are these schools giving time off in lieu for accompanying trips???

My old school claimed to do this. However, since it had to be agreed by the head it either kept being rearranged because we're short staffed,no one to cover,this special thing is happening or used when the teacher had to be off anyways due to sickness, childcare,wedding,funeral etc. Very rarely it would be attached to a last day of term(kids leave at 1:30 anyways) and they played it as such a massive perk.

@Meggyd2

Outraged by this thread. When you go on holiday with your own childre do you ever have a drink? Have you ever been in a hotel with your teenaged children and having had a drink in the evening been over the limit to drive? Indeed have you ever consumed alcohol when supervising your children at home?

I do all of those things. I don't do any of them when I'm at work though.

@Meggyd2

Outraged by this thread. When you go on holiday with your own childre do you ever have a drink? Have you ever been in a hotel with your teenaged children and having had a drink in the evening been over the limit to drive? Indeed have you ever consumed alcohol when supervising your children at home?

To be fair I do lots of things with/around my kid that wouldn't be appropriate to do at work.

"if the girls are in the boys room then they're not doing a very good job". Oh come on, they're teenagers with raging hormones and there's 50 of them, can you even imagine how hard it is to police a week of that as a teacher? You'd need no sleep, eyes in the back of your head....the list goes on. The least you can do is not slag the poor teachers off for doing their best. So many people are so down on teachers. I just don't get it. Most.of us wouldn't last 5 minutes in a classroom.

I've taken several school trips abroad and I would be seriously unimpressed with what @iwasjustwonderingreally describes. Ski trips have the reputation for being the worst for this sort of behaviour (among both teachers and students).

As a pupil myself in the 90s, I went on ski trips and we were drinking every night from Y9/10. The teachers let us go out in the evenings knowing this would be the case, and as long as we came back on time and didn't wobble too much, they turned a blind eye. They were pretty smashed themselves, every night. I know loads of staff were desperate to get on these trips as they were such a great time for the teachers! Most students drank and there was definitely some sexual activity and drug use on these trips. And this was among my group of friends who would generally have been described as nice kids who would never do xyz. The teachers obviously didn't know about the drugs but they certainly knew about the drinking. There was definitely a sort of 'don't ask, don't tell' policy!

As a teacher myself, I refused to take senior school ski trips because I knew far too much about what goes on. I did go on a junior school one. Some staff had a drink but they certainly weren't getting wasted, and 2 people were always on call and expected to be sober.

As a trip leader, I've always been really funny about staff drinking at all on trips (or in any other in loco parentis situation e.g. boarding). I know lots of boarding staff who drink once they've finished duty for the evening, some to excess, but if a kid wakes up in the night poorly or there's any sort of emergency, you do not want the staff onsite to have had even a drop. If something goes terribly wrong, even one glass of wine would be seen as a possible contributor to a poor decision or slow reaction to something.

Knowing the kinds of things kids get up to on ski trips, I would want to be fully sober when in charge of them!!!

And in response to the original query, teachers definitely don't pay for anything on a school trip. I've been to multiple different countries and had a fabulous time, but yes it is work and also a huge responsibility.

I'm very surprised that drunk teachers in charge of or in the company of students would fly these days...

@Responsiveroo

What have i have said so inflammatory

Only that based on the op
Which is all we have
The teachers failed in their duty of care

Bt you don't know that as yet. The assertion is based on the OP's words. The OP's words are seemingly based on the reports from a group of 15 year old teenagers and their phone footage.

Whilst it may be true that all 4 teachers were tipsy and/or drunk, it may also be true that the teenager's reporting of the situation is exaggerated. or not as reported.

Teachers are not paid to work in the holidays. They work 195 days a year and the pay for those days is paid out in 12 monthly installments. They are not, or at least should not, be obliged to run trips in the holidays. If they do so it is an act of goodwill. Many teacher refuse to do trips outside the school day. This is why.

@mam0918

Our school holds fundraisers to send teachers on holiday... not even school trips just mid-term holidays (to exotic locations).

They say the teachers 'learn' things on these 'excursions' and then share that wisdom with the class... I frankly find it cheeky fuckery.

Where is this school?

I'm considering applying to work there!!!
Never heard anything like it, sounds great for staff.

But if your child was taken ill at 3am and reported to you that the teacher who crawled out of bed to assist was drunk, you'd be horrified — wouldn't you? Teachers are on duty: it's a job. You, the parents, trust the teachers to be sober and ready to deal with anything that occurs to your little darlings in a professional way. Heaven help the teacher who fails to spot children climbing in and out of dorm windows or sneaking out and is later brought to book because of an accident — and is found to have drunk half a bottle of wine while on duty.

You can't have it both ways.

You don't have to send your kids on trips in the holidays. Why not entertain them yourselves?

If the girls are in the boys room then they're not doing a very good job.

So the teachers aren't allowed to even go to sleep then, to ensure this doesn't happen??

How on earth do you think that the staff can ensure everyone stays where they should be 100% of the time, when it involves overnight stays in a hotel?

Think about it practically. You can set rules and consequences. But ultimately you can't supervise 50+ teenagers 100% of the time 24 hours a day.