To wonder who funds a teacher's school trip

[iwasjustwonderingreally]

My daughter went skiing with her school in February half term.

Four teachers accompanied them.

Do teachers pay for themselves, or a contribution, (I appreciate they are working though), or is the cost to the pupil inflated to cover the cost of the teachers?

Absolutely Goldbar. They are entirely separate issues. So if the teachers were self funding it would be ok for them not to supervise the teens would it?

Also it’s so thick to compare the cost of a school trip to that of a family holiday you have to pay staff costs on a trip either of the attending teachers or the staff at the activity centre.

I would be so grateful if my child could get on a trip! I collect with bottles of wine for staff but both parents are teachers so know they hell of it. No money would be enough for me to be responsible for other peoples teens.

Do you really think a teacher who is giving up their holidays and time with their own family to work a school trip is going to pay for themselves??? They can't do whatever they like, no relaxing, no drinking, supervising 30+ teens 24/7, yet you would contemplate they pay for the privilege 🤣🤣. It's the equivalent of someone paying for a work business trip.

@mam0918

Our school holds fundraisers to send teachers on holiday... not even school trips just mid-term holidays (to exotic locations).

They say the teachers 'learn' things on these 'excursions' and then share that wisdom with the class... I frankly find it cheeky fuckery.

That’s certainly never happened in any state school I’ve worked in, or even heard of!

Look at all the posters remembering their school trip teen experiences of what 20/30/40 years ago! They are precious things so any teacher facilitating that would have to be pretty bloody awful for me to complain as long as my kid came back in one piece.

@Responsiveroo

If your teenager came back And said she’d been I’ll But “all” the teachers had been tipsy and one especially drunk

And you trusted your teen, she they weren’t prone to exaggerating (no idea about this one!)
Would you not pursue a complaint? Or at least approach the school and ask for a pretty frank disuxssion?

I agree - yes, I would at least want to make an enquiry as to what had happened. But I would proceed with caution, as it can be very difficult to judge the difference between 'tipsy', 'drunk', and just 'high sprits'.

I'm a cub leader, and take the cubs on camps/residentials at least three times a year. The Scout Association rules state that leaders who are responsible for young people may not drink (at all), and a minimum of two leaders must be responsible at any time, depending on the number on kids on camp. This should be risk assessed.

Other leaders can have a drink, but away from the young people, and should consider how it may affect their ability to carry out their duties later.

As a result, we rarely have a drink on camp (as much as we might need one!). We may share a bottle of wine in the late evening, but it's rare, and at least two people will remain alcohol free!

I fully appreciate how hard it is to take children away on holiday, it's exhausting. And I understand that some teachers may want to have a drink, that's fair enough. But I certainly wouldn't think it's ok for all to be drinking, and no-one should be drunk. Of course, we don't really know what happened here, but it seems fair to investigate.

The travel companies often offer the staff places free. I.e x number of free places per y children. Schools aren't allowed to inflate the cost of the trip to cover children who can't/don't pay, but they can cover expenses, which staff costs would be.

Personally I don't understand why schools are so keen to offer these trips or what the real benefit to (a few) children is, but I wouldn't expect staff to pay for themselves. IME it won't be all expenses paid like most other business trips though. They won't be claiming for food and drink etc and they won't be paid for the week's work (skiing is usually in the holidays?)

You’ll have to ask your school how it was funded, won’t you? Before you start complaining about the teachers who spent 24/7 with a bunch of teenagers on a school trip.

I was at a famously liberal school in the 90s. Two of the teachers were in the passionate stage of an affair and the school trip to Paris was the perfect way to indulge it to their heart's content. Ever single student knew what was happening and the most awkward part was that many of them were also taught by his wife at the same school. The teacher having the affair was young and gorgeous (first year of teaching) and he was a scruffy, old codger who had been there for decades and they were openly affectionate in front of the students.

Anyway, after several months of the students complaining to the Headteacher, the young teacher got the sack and he escaped without any penalty whatsoever.

A teacher locally had a breakdown as a child died on a trip she organised. Can you imagine taking on that responsibility and paying for it yourself. Really?

@Obelisk I'm sure I remember that thread!

@mam0918

Our school holds fundraisers to send teachers on holiday... not even school trips just mid-term holidays (to exotic locations).

They say the teachers 'learn' things on these 'excursions' and then share that wisdom with the class... I frankly find it cheeky fuckery.

Really? Well , unless they are holding your children over snake pits and threatening to drop them in, or making them walk barefoot over hot coals until you comply , why are you and the other stupid parents agreeing to pay? I suggest you get the other parents together and teach them the MN mantra “No is a complete sentence”

The travel companies often offer the staff places free. I.e x number of free places per y children. Schools aren't allowed to inflate the cost of the trip to cover children who can't/don't pay, but they can cover expenses, which staff costs would be

In effect then, the children do subsidise the costs of the teachers , the increase is built in to the price per child, to allow the staff places to be free. After all, the holiday company aren't offering free places out of the goodness of their heart.

That said, it seems to me to be an irrelevant point in relation to the OPs actual issue - regardless of who pays, if a teacher is looking after a child, they should not be drunk (not saying they were drunk, we can't really judge from the info given, but who pays for the trip is irrelevant)

Ha! I'm a teacher and I laughed out loud at the idea of paying to go on a work trip 😂 believe me, it's far from a holiday for teachers!

@iwasjustwonderingreally

The complaint is that their child was ill and they'd have expected there to be at least one teacher who wasn't drunk and who could take responsibility.

I would imagine we'd all hope that when sending our kids away with the school.

There is video/photographic evidence of drunken teachers. The Head Mistress has actually contacted some pupils asking them to delete the photos.

And if you hadnt paid for them then it's ok is it?

Decide if you want to make a complaint or not based on their behaviour not on whether you paid for them to go or not.

If they are supposed to be caring for your kids and were unable to- then it doesnt matter I'd you paid for them or not you should still complain.

Gabby done a ski trip but have been an accompanying staff member on the Year 6 PGL trip (easy target, I’m childless).

• didn’t pay to go. Did however fork out my own money to buy children little extra souvenir, treated them to some food at a market.
• didn’t sleep a wink! Ears always wide open.
• Spent long evenings and nights (first night till 3am!) patrolling the corridor until the last child finally went to sleep
• Cleared up sick on the coach
• Spent every outing constantly keeping count of my group and realising the shocking lack of road safety awareness some of these kids had
• Spent the whole 5 days just generally on full alert the entire time

Enjoyed it though in a daft way - yes I got a sense of satisfaction when the kids got back and said just how much they had enjoyed it. And me and the other staff certainly had some laughs. I wouldn’t pay for it though. I don’t get my time back or any extra pay in any shape or form. The work leading up to it is mammoth! Don’t underestimate these trips.

It’s not a holiday - I might have had nice positive trips - but no holiday.

The working day is far longer and intensive. Lets say 6am until the last one goes to bed - and stays in bed.

So longer hours + cleaning up vomit from confectionary based midnight feasts, tears, break ups.

I never did ski trips but regularly to outdoor/youth hostel/walking/climbing type breaks with y9s.

School helped those who couldn’t pay - rightly I never knew who. They also paid for supply staff to cover our lessons. The Head was a great believer in these trips - all went at some point.

There were some ski trips in which non teaching partners went - they paid.

Why do you ask?

Don’t know why my first word changed to Gabby - Was meant to be “Haven’t done a ski trip!”

Can assure you it is certainly no 'holiday' for the teachers?!!!
There are often free places included as part of the package with the skiing company. Teachers miss out on their half term for a much needed rest or time to do work.
It's quite incredible how little many people understand about the workload of a teacher... long days in the week, weekends and holidays we work! Can also assure you the head would have been struggling to find teachers for the trip!

I find it stressful enough taking my class on a day trip. A residential abroad, with the added factor if a dangerous sport would be an absolute no. Horrible level of responsibility.

I would certainly hope the pupil cost pays for the teachers! And in addition, they need to be paid well for undertaking these trips, all that extra time they are in charge of the kids, compared to the normal school hours.

Do the teachers even get time off in lieu? if not they should.

If it's true that all the teachers were drunk then that does sound like a real safeguarding issue and I'd be concerned, OP. I guess the issue is whether they were all drunk and how much evidence there is. Difficult to tell from a video unless they were very drunk indeed.

FWIW I think you've been treated badly on this thread. Those criticising you would likely be up in arms if their child had needed assistance on a school trip and all the teachers had been boozing.

What's also really sad is that the OP clearly has no idea whatsoever of how much work at least one teacher has put in to organise that trip. Teachers aren't paid any extra at all to do this, but the sheer amount of work that goes into organising a trip, especially one abroad and one with risky activities like skiing, is eye-watering. It's hours of paperwork, phonecalls etc., risk assessments before the trip even gets off the ground. Then, I can assure you, as trip leader you have a huge sense of responsibility that nothing goes wrong (and SO much can go wrong when organising a trip for teenagers - you have to try to think of every single thing that could possibly happen, and then you need to pre-empt it). The poor teacher who organised this trip put in hours of work only, apparently for parents to start complaining that staff had a glass or two of wine (I suspect over their dinner) or that parents had paid for the teachers' places. What a slap in the face. As a reminder: teachers don't NEED to organise trips. They do so because they care about their pupils. Be grateful, not critical, or nobody will organise anything!

@FlickyCrumble

Do the teachers even get time off in lieu? if not they should.

No, of course not. Teachers don't get any extra pay for additional hours worked (i.e. parents' evenings etc. as well). It's an annual salary that is lower than other professional salaries requiring similar qualifications, and it's lower to account for the extra weeks of holidays.

@FlickyCrumble

Do the teachers even get time off in lieu? if not they should.

No, this doesn’t happen.