To think teachers should be able to spell

[Brieandcamembert]

I have increasingly noticed recently teachers (often of primary age) who make very basic spelling and grammar errors. Surely having excellent basic skills in this area is an essential criteria for teaching it?

I'm really concerned that we are raising a generation who will have appalling literacy skills.

I have seen the classic "of / have" confusion
I have seen "been" used instead of "being"
I have also seen phonetically similar words interchanged with one another.

@sweepeep

Yes it's crazy! U.K. teachers are accepted based on GCSE English grades...it's not enough to be honest! Irish teachers need to have A levels equivalents in english, Irish, maths and at least 3 other subjects

Not U.K. teachers - Scotland doesn’t have GCSEs.

I'm dyslexic. I also worked as a teacher for well over a decade without it ever being spotted (the dyslexia was noticed when I career changed and went back to university). Yes, I was human and made mistakes - but if they were pointed out to me I praised the child doing so, and would model things like checking spellings in a dictionary etc. My dyslexia is much more that I struggle to retain and process written information and I have strategies I use to manage that when it comes to taking in information from complex documents and the like.

The amount of misplaced apostrophes or incorrectly used homophones in some schools does my bloody head in.

I was always utterly incapable of getting the year on dates correct in reading diaries until about May each year and the parents would gleefully correct them in red pen but it was done in good nature (think I may have given a few of them smiley faces for spotting the errors).

@TrashyPanda ok teachers in England. What does Scotland have?

I don't know enough about teaching in schools to comment on the current quality of teacher recruitment and ability. I have no complaints about my own children's teachers and think they do a great job.

I think good grammar and spelling is important in most contexts. The meaning of a sentence can be altered substantially without it. The ability to express a concept clearly, without ambiguity, is essential to the advancement of nearly everything. We cannot progress if we spend all our time having to clarify things first.

I also think that reasonable adjustments should not equate to a drop in standards. Once reasonable adjustments have been put in place, an individual benefitting from them should be able to perform at the same level of competency required as someone not in need of additional support.

That said, it's 2022. We have a wide range of technology available to us and we know that diversity in teaching methods maximises educational potential among students. Someone who is a gifted teacher but poor at SPAG should be supported to teach, with help for SPAG-related functions (even beyond reasonable adjustments if they're that good, such as having a competent secretary or paying for dictation software and a proof-reader). The trouble is no one wants to pay extra for that. I would, but I suspect I'm in a minority.

My last role required me to authorise files used in a legal context. I have definitely noticed a decline in ability to write coherently among new, generally young, staff and spent a lot of time coaching them. Most improved rapidly (make of that what you will) but it was rather concerning given that the files had the potential to fundamentally impact on someone's life.

Clarity matters. In teaching fundamentally so. However, I don't think dyslexia means you can't teach; far from it. Managing diversity means harnessing different strengths to overcome this. The trouble with a lot of state-based institutions is that they're only doing half the task and not adequately supporting their staff.

Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. As long as they don’t make them while actually teaching SPaG rules - which they won’t as they’ll be working from a lesson plan- I wouldn’t sweat it.
I’ve been a copy editor and the most educated people making little mistakes all the time.

[quote sweepeep]@TrashyPanda ok teachers in England. What does Scotland have?[/quote]
Nationals, Highers and Advanced Highers

I was a school governor at primary school level for 5 yrs+ and I can say that SPAG is a massive focus for OFSTED and something that the school is expected to focus on.

I can appreciate why perfect spelling might be less relevant in specialist areas at secondary level. However, in a primary school where children are developing their knowledge, I think solid spelling skills are essential. How is a teacher going to identify and correct basic errors if they're making the same mistakes themselves? I've seen primary school teachers making very basic spelling/grammatical errors in handwritten notes (similar to what OP describes). And actually, there's one example where the individual was Head of English!

I don't think things like getting the date wrong etc matter.

The only time I experienced this from a teacher (letter to parents requiring response) I corrected the error with a red pen.

For some reason it only happened once.

[quote sweepeep]@TrashyPanda ok teachers in England. What does Scotland have?[/quote]
Scottish Qualifications Certificates - Nat 4/5s in 4th year and Highers in 5th and 6th year.

Our education system is totally different.

I just love the number that say it doesn't matter, but unless you get it right at the beginning it'll never get better.

The number of professionals who can't spell is amazing and is very unprofessional. If they can't get the little things right how is a client expected to have confidence in them getting the big things right.

steps down off soapbox

but who the hell uses an apostrophy for a plural?

Muphry's law in action right there.

This is not a recent phenomenon.
In the early 90s the local primary school had 'SMALL FRIES' in foot high letters across the reception class windows.
Thirty years later I still wince at the memory of driving past it every day.

I agree with you @BrieandcamembertPearls
I've seen some terrible SPaG errors in the workplace, and I've had to ask for clarification.

Generally, if I understand what someone means I'll let it go, but I find errors like of/have off-putting

I had tp ask someone what they meant by 'reaching out'. I needed the means of contact and reaching out could have been one of several methods. They still haven't reached out.

@2bazookas

The only time I experienced this from a teacher (letter to parents requiring response) I corrected the error with a red pen.

For some reason it only happened once.

Did the whole bus clap?

[quote Villagewaspbyke]@WhenSheWasBad - there are recruitment crisis in every area at the moment. My profession are finding it impossible to recruit and there is no cap on training numbers as there are for teachers.[/quote]
Yes there are recruitment crises in many areas. Teaching had a recruitment and retention crisis pre Covid.

Having other industries trying to recruit staff just makes it harder to recruit good teachers. They can offer flexible hours and working from home. That’s not something schools can offer to their staff.

I was a bit miffed when I spotted the ‘word of the day’ on a yr5 classroom board was spelt incorrectly (I admit, I had to do a subtle check on my phone, as I doubted myself). I appreciate we all make mistakes, but I did think that was quite poor.

Here's the thing... ideally yes. They would have a perfect grasp of language,grammar, spelling written and verbal. Or at least good enough to teach accurately and correct /spot any misconceptions and mistakes.

However, there is a teacher recruitment crisis and even if qualified/hired too many quit after a few years. So you make do with what you have and a good teacher is more than just their grammar skills. They need good behaviour management skills, good subject knowledge, good SEN training/awareness and so on. If you have Miss Jones that is good at everything else and a great teacher who the children love,respond well to and they make progress with , you won't fire her just because she's from X and says "we was" or wrong apostrophes as annoying and incorrect as it is .

There’s something of a double standard going on here. MN gets very sniffy about SPaG and tells those who question to go over to Pedants Corner. The inference is, that if what a poster is writing is understandable, it doesn’t matter if their spelling and grammar is incorrect.

I know that it is a very different thing when it’s about teaching. Of course it should be accurate, but I think plenty of posters have explained that there are times when it isn’t straightforward.

What concerns me greatly, is the notion that people with very basic skills are now being accepted on to training courses. That certainly isn’t going to improve SPaG. We’re getting to the stage where it won’t matter at all, because what will matter is having someone to stand in front of a class of children.

What is preferable? As far as I’m concerned, a high quality, well educated teaching workforce is vital. That’s not the way things are going though.

The best teacher I had in my school was severely dyslexic. Got the best results consistently throughout the country

@Foxyloxy1plus1

There’s something of a double standard going on here. MN gets very sniffy about SPaG and tells those who question to go over to Pedants Corner. The inference is, that if what a poster is writing is understandable, it doesn’t matter if their spelling and grammar is incorrect.

I know that it is a very different thing when it’s about teaching. Of course it should be accurate, but I think plenty of posters have explained that there are times when it isn’t straightforward.

What concerns me greatly, is the notion that people with very basic skills are now being accepted on to training courses. That certainly isn’t going to improve SPaG. We’re getting to the stage where it won’t matter at all, because what will matter is having someone to stand in front of a class of children.

What is preferable? As far as I’m concerned, a high quality, well educated teaching workforce is vital. That’s not the way things are going though.

That workforce doesn't exist though. There aren't enough teachers,regardless of their skills, so plenty of schools go even "lower" hiring unqualified teachers or using TA's to plug the gap.

You can't demand excellence, but then not reward it appropriately or offer any benefits/incentives.

In my area all Schools Direct funding has stopped, so a lot of the people that would've gone into teaching won't anymore, or they're going someplace else to be unqualified teachers or get some kind of pay while they're finishing their course instead of staying in the area /at the schools they started as a TA (for example) in. They might come back eventually after they qualify, but very often that's not the case.

@Nicholethejewellery - pupils are not customers and that kind of transactional language is not helpful. Primary teaching is a vital and hugely skilled job but unfortunately the educational standard of many entrants is not great .

@sweepeep - A level English has bugger all to do with spelling!

I once picked up a local university’s leaflet advertising its taught MA in English.
There were two basic mistakes in the short blurb!

Unsurprisingly the university comes fairly low in the rankings.

[quote Musmerian]@sweepeep - A level English has bugger all to do with spelling![/quote]
It surely has a lot to do with well written, cogently argued essays in correct English, though - or do they belong in the past, and it’s all multiple choice questions now?

@mydogisthebest

A good few years ago a friend's son wrote in his English essay "he walked past the church". The teacher crossed out "past" and wrote "passed"!

My friend spoke to the teacher but the teacher insisted she was right