AIBU to not want an electric car?

[Elevenfourteen]

I know IABU for asking such a dull question, but my Dh wants to buy an electric car and I’m not convinced.
I guess they’re better for the environment so that’s one thing. But are we set up for them properly yet? Do all garages have charging points? Do you have to hang around the garage for ages while they charge? I just can’t imagine how they can be a practical option.
Driving to work and back and charging at night is fine, but what about going on holiday?

Do any of you have electric cars and can you reassure me?

@Lunar27

I'm not so sure it's a myth or that it has been debunked. In a previous job I had to negotiate with electricity distributors (the operators of the infrastructure between the substations and the home or business end user) when looking to install linear accelerators in cancer treatment centres. The national transmission infrastructure might be OK but trust me, it is a very, very real issue at local distribution level.

@Otherpeoplesteens

Every article I've read, including the national grid's says that the grid can cope, and that was my original comment.

Whether the local distribution can, is another matter and would imagine is highly dependent on locale, as well as the number of people charging.

It's a common misconception that everyone will be charging simultaneously as the just don't and the grid will likely evolve currently overnight tariffs to suit generation and load profiles.

But I'll repeat. Infrastructures evolve so I very much doubt local networks will stay the same when EV ownership increases I the areas you're talking about.

Therefore worrying about a theoretical scenario today, when mass EV uptake is 10-20 years away, is unwise

Do you have any idea how long it takes to roll out this kind of infrastructure and how much investment? Or the kind of distribution bottlenecks and problems in the current, aging UK grid? These programmes take decades, not a few months in the run up to 2030.

Even in my urban road about half the houses could not be upgraded without significant cabling changes due to the age of the local infrastructure. Then there is the carbon footprint of all that civil engineering and infrastructure work in itself, let alone the carbon footprint of replacing any car less than 10-15 years old.

It absolutely needs worrying about now if you want EVs to achieve mass roll out but in the short term replacing relatively recent cars with EVs is more about green consumerism for the middle classes than reducing carbon footprint.

If you want to reduce your carbon footprint then start with your day to day life, reducing consumption, insulating where you can, reducing car journeys where you can, reducing imported food - these all reduce carbon footprint without adding to it further up the line. If your car is over ten years old then look at EV or hybrid when you need to replace rather than when you fancy a new car.

Those of you who have a charging point at home, how much was it and who did it? Thank you!

@C8H10N4O2

I have an appreciation as an engineer, of course.

My comments relate to the type of person you often hear pontificating that the grid can't possibly cope, yet has no actual interest in buying an EV until there's no other option i.e. in 10-20 years time. This is despite the national grid saying there isn't a problem.

So yes, it's unwise for Joe public to worry about stuff today when it's not going to affect them for aeons.

It's definitely something for the relevant organisations to think about but something tells me that they've been thinking about it for some time now.

@Pilatesteacheruk

Those of you who have a charging point at home, how much was it and who did it? Thank you!

Prices vary depending on what charger you go for and what features you want e.g. solar panel and battery storage compatibility etc. but something basic will cost about £700 all in. Sadly the government have now ended the £350 grant so you'll have to pay the full amount. It's been a while since I had mine installed so there may be cheaper ones available.

The supplier of the charger will normally organise an electrician to install it. All you'd need to do is to provide some basic info on the location of your consumer unit, where you'd like the charger and whether you have any spare fuse capacity.

Of course, if you know an electrician you can buy a charger direct and have it installed yourself. This may be cheaper still.

to echo what @Lunar27 said - bear in mind that you might not actually need one at all.
At the moment we are just charging it happily via a 3 pin plug in the garage (cable runs outside the garage) having moved to house without a charge point.
This means it takes 12 hours i.e. overnight from empty to full as opposed to 3 ish with a charge point but we never actually charge from empty. Trick is to just plug it in every few days overnight at home to keep it topped up. We intend to get a chargepoint fitted for when we need it charged more quickly but are coping just fine as it is and have no rush.

Those of you who have a charging point at home, how much was it and who did it? Thank you!
It was free, we got a government grant of £350 and Audi paid the rest.

Ours isn't coming until May. We have to get some sort of update to our wiring and then the charger will be fitted the day after. Cost is around £900 all-in. At the moment we charge DH's Tesla overnight using a regular plug in our porch. It's only every 4 or 5 days and the lowest the battery has been since delivery is 60%. To be honest, we don't really need the charger but it's not a huge stretch financially so we've kept the appointment. Who knows, the next owners of our house might be more inclined to get an electric vehicle because of it. I debated a Zoe about 4 years ago but didn't understand how charging worked.

@Lunar27 interesting what you say about BIK. EVs seem to be way more appealing as a corporate purchase. When you do the Tesla compared with the standard ICE car on a £48k car the savings to a business purchase are somewhere about £23k over 5 years, but as a private purchase the savings to the individual diminish to under £4k over 5 years based on an average deal. Yes that is savings to business vs savings to an individual so not necessarily like for like, but lots of people don’t get company cars but generally these people have the pick of the market rather than something from the fleet, so maybe more of that saving could be moved away from fleet and into private ownership.

@lampygirl.

Yes definitely. It is rather skewed towards business but then I have a friend who works for the NHS and their car scheme is ludicrous. Not long ago she could have a Jaguar iPace for around £350/month or Audi eTron for £400. When you consider that everything is included except electricity, it's a no brainer.

It's always business though and think it's a real kicker that they've scrapped the EV grant when BIK is zero.

Thank you @lunar27 @FloBot7

[quote Lunar27]@lampygirl.

Yes definitely. It is rather skewed towards business but then I have a friend who works for the NHS and their car scheme is ludicrous. Not long ago she could have a Jaguar iPace for around £350/month or Audi eTron for £400. When you consider that everything is included except electricity, it's a no brainer.

It's always business though and think it's a real kicker that they've scrapped the EV grant when BIK is zero.[/quote]
Indeed. The EV salary sacrifice schemes are nuts. The savings are totally dependent on your marginal tax rate.

Hypothetically - someone still qualifying for tax credits could sacrifice say 12k per year for a taycan. Totally legal.

That 12k would cost them ~3k net as they have an effective marginal rate of 73% with the taper. So 250 p/m for a Taycan, fully insured etc.😂

I'd do it for sure 😁

Oh - I forgot now that BIK is back though on those Sal sac deals, so it wouldn’t quite work.

But still - on a cheaper car, yeah those schemes are amazing. Another sweet spot could be if you earn between 50-60k and are having your child benefit tapered away - or 100-125k and having the personal allowance tapered. All have big marginal rates that you could sacrifice for an EV instead ….

www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/tax-credits-manual/tcm0260120

Just in case anyone thinks I’m talking rubbish that you could get a cheap Tesla on tax credits 😂

Be careful with the NHS lease scheme though if anyone is considering it - I looked into it but decided against it because it would have reduced my pension contributions - if I did it for 10 years when I retired I would have been £1000 a year worse off. There is the option to offset this and pay more in to make up the difference of course but in terms of monthly outgoings PCP worked out cheaper and provided I pay it off I will own the car at the end - not so with lease schemes.

@FlyingFlamingo

Be careful with the NHS lease scheme though if anyone is considering it - I looked into it but decided against it because it would have reduced my pension contributions - if I did it for 10 years when I retired I would have been £1000 a year worse off. There is the option to offset this and pay more in to make up the difference of course but in terms of monthly outgoings PCP worked out cheaper and provided I pay it off I will own the car at the end - not so with lease schemes.

Yeah the devil is in the detail with the NHS scheme. At my workplace, all salary sacrifices are calculated and cumulative from the gross - so for instance pension comes off - and they give us the employer amount based off full. .

There would be nothing to stop someone doing the following - technically - all they need to do is stay above minimum wage on a monthly basis.

Sacrifice enough to put 40k in pension (it’ll likely take between 20-32k to do that, once employers contribs are taken into account)

Sacrifice say 12k for a cycle

Sacrifice 12k for an EV

Perhaps doing the above gets yourself down to minimum wage and then you can claim universal credit.

In no way financial advice - but by my reading of the rules - that’s all allowed. But do your own research. It’s In-flipping-sane.

@FlyingFlamingo

Be careful with the NHS lease scheme though if anyone is considering it - I looked into it but decided against it because it would have reduced my pension contributions - if I did it for 10 years when I retired I would have been £1000 a year worse off. There is the option to offset this and pay more in to make up the difference of course but in terms of monthly outgoings PCP worked out cheaper and provided I pay it off I will own the car at the end - not so with lease schemes.

It depends on your personal circumstances. We’ve just gone for it on the NHS salary sacrifice. Dh is only 5 years from retirement, and pcp would not work out cheaper for us. We looked at the numbers very carefully.