AIBU to not want an electric car?

[Elevenfourteen]

I know IABU for asking such a dull question, but my Dh wants to buy an electric car and I’m not convinced.
I guess they’re better for the environment so that’s one thing. But are we set up for them properly yet? Do all garages have charging points? Do you have to hang around the garage for ages while they charge? I just can’t imagine how they can be a practical option.
Driving to work and back and charging at night is fine, but what about going on holiday?

Do any of you have electric cars and can you reassure me?

Of course it may not suit you, but they work for many of us. Like PP I have a Zoe and absolutely love it. I bought it second-hand last summer for €6,000 (2016, 60,000km) - a long way from £30,000! The range is only 100km but it's plenty for me. DH still has a petrol car which we use for longer trips. When it dies we will swap it for a hybrid or an EV with a bigger range. Holidays are 2 or 3 weeks a year - we will hire a car for that if necessary. I charge overnight in my garage on a household plug, no special equipment needed. There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there!

I'm waiting for the range to improve, costs to come down and the infrastructure to be put in place, then I'll buy an EV.

I don’t know a lot about electric cars, but I thought many of them are self charging now?
I would really like one but assume starting cost was around £30,000.

Not missing the point. 95% of my charging is at home, on totally renewable energy.

and

Also not missing the point @WhenPushComesToShove. I charge at home, using electricity from a renewables-only supplier.

You may not have missed the point but you have not understood it. Unless you have your own solar or wind farm separate from the National Grid it is just not possible to claim you only use renewable electricity.

You may have a supplier which claims to source 100% renewable electricity for your tariff. It works like this: your supplier has a series of contracts with generators. It is possible that for every kWh of electricity they sell you they have contracted for a kWh of electricity from a renewable generator. But it is also quite legal for them to buy some, most or all of it all from a coal power generator, buy the equivalent in REGOs (Renewable Energy Guarantees of Origin - carbon credits) and sell it to you as 'renewable,' which is what most of them do. That's on the commercial side of things.

On the scientific side, while there is always a certain amount of genuine renewable energy being put into the system it varies during the course of a day, week etc. You know full well that on a still night there is no solar and almost no wind power. Your supplier contracts with a generator for the supply of wholesale electricity for, typically, 30 minutes' at a given time. If, during that window, your supplier's genuine renewable generator isn't producing electricity, then your 'green' supplier automatically sources it from the grid through a clearing system from other generators - a mix of gas, coal, nuclear, hydroelectric and imports. You get no choice in the matter, even on your '100% renewable' tariff.

Anyone who claims to be charging their car at home on totally renewable energy sourced from the grid has been greenwashed. You may feel good about it, but you are plain wrong.

@AnastasiaRomanov

I don’t know a lot about electric cars, but I thought many of them are self charging now? I would really like one but assume starting cost was around £30,000.

no they don't charge themselves! There are some hybrids out there where the petrol engine 'charges' the battery.

www.which.co.uk/news/2019/09/how-green-is-your-energy-tariff/

[quote Lunar27]@daimbarsatemydogsbone

In fairness the greenest thing you can do is to not buy another car. It's the continuous cycle of buying that's ruining the planet so keeping your 17 year old car is a good thing.

I own an EV but am under no illusions that it's helping anything but the big corporations.[/quote]
This is the conclusion I've come after looking at EVs last year and a few years ago - its still largely green consumerism rather than green. I will keep reviewing every couple of years but there is some distance to go before they live up to the claimed green credentials.

I have had EVs as rental - fine to drive and I would be happy to drive one all the time but the charging infrastructure absolutely is a significant issue and the idea that its "entitled" to want to complete a long journey in a reasonable time is silly.

Anyone who claims to be charging their car at home on totally renewable energy sourced from the grid has been greenwashed. You may feel good about it, but you are plain wrong.

I'm not greenwashed. I've been with ecotricity for about 10 years now and they've made a huuuge impact on renewable energy. I don't have the weather, funds or space to set up my own solar or wind farm, so the next best thing was to use a green energy supplier in the hope the market will continue to shift. I'm quite happy with my choice and yes, I feel good about it. Stop being so bitter.

@C8H10N4O2.

You can't blame the industry and governments from trying and ultimately zero tailpipe emissions cannot be argued with really. However, nothing we do is green, when manufacturing is involved. It's just degrees of damage.

Honestly, my main drivers for buying an EV were:

Zero BIK
First year corporation tax write down (company car purchase)
Lower maintenance costs (covered by the company)
Much lower running costs
Zero tailpipe emissions

I would say that the majority of owners switch for financial reasons, much like we did with diesel. Yet why EV's seem to bring out the 'informed' and 'EV's aren't green' brigade is beyond me.

@AnastasiaRomanov

I don’t know a lot about electric cars, but I thought many of them are self charging now? I would really like one but assume starting cost was around £30,000.

Self charging Hybrid is a ridiculous piece of marketing bollockspeak started by Toyota. Their "self charging" Hybrids are the same as they ever were - they get some charge from using the motors as a generator when braking.

Hybrids have batteries but they still have a petrol or diesel engine too.

Actual electric cars can't charge themselves - they need a cable and a plug to charge.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there!

I do find it interesting that a lot of EV discussions seem to involve people who don’t and have never owned EVs coming up with hypothetical scenarios that make EVs impractical, while actual EV owners explain that they’ve never actually encountered any such issues. Some people seem to think you have to just drive around the streets for hours desperately looking for a charger until you run out of battery!

They definitely aren’t for everyone but I do sometimes think there’s a knee-jerk resistance to them because they’re new and different and maybe because EV drivers are perceived as being smug? I think some people have already made up their minds that they don’t like them for whatever reason and then go looking for reasons why.

I've had:

You can't drive an EV through deep water as you'd get electrocuted.
I couldn't get an EV because it's impossible to charge while the power shower, cooker, tumble dryer, hair dryer and all other appliances are on at the same time.
The grid can't cope.
EV's catch fire a lot.
Deaf people will get run over in car parks.
I can't get an EV as I regularly do 1000 miles towing a caravan in winter without a break.

@Lunar27

I've had:

You can't drive an EV through deep water as you'd get electrocuted.
I couldn't get an EV because it's impossible to charge while the power shower, cooker, tumble dryer, hair dryer and all other appliances are on at the same time.
The grid can't cope.
EV's catch fire a lot.
Deaf people will get run over in car parks.
I can't get an EV as I regularly do 1000 miles towing a caravan in winter without a break.

But deaf people can't hear any fucking car 🤦‍♀️🤣

Hybrid sounds good but then there are thieves that steal the catalytic converter on Honda/Toyotas frequently

No, but they're supposedly able to feel the vibrations of an engine. Allegedly.

Not being deaf it's hard to dispute but my MIL said exactly that when she found out I'd bought an EV.

I think she meant blind people but was too late and I had to bite my tongue. This would make more sense but neglects that drivers are not blind so can see when someone is in the way or crossing the road.

@Lunar27 you forgot not being able to take your EV to the car wash because you’d get electrocuted

@Lunar27

No, but they're supposedly able to feel the vibrations of an engine. Allegedly.

Not being deaf it's hard to dispute but my MIL said exactly that when she found out I'd bought an EV.

I think she meant blind people but was too late and I had to bite my tongue. This would make more sense but neglects that drivers are not blind so can see when someone is in the way or crossing the road.

EV’s emit a sound at low speeds (so driving around car parks, pedestrianised areas, parking), which helps alert visually impaired pedestrians to their presence.

I know you’re a fellow EV driver and your list was meant as an illustration of the ‘stupid things people’ say).

Yes, add to the list “you can’t charge in the rain, or you’ll get electrocuted”

All evs don’t make a sound when going slow.

When we where camping no music just chatting and throwing a frisbe next thing there was a car right there no sound at all. That one was pretty dangerous on a camp site none for allowing children to run free. It wasn’t on a designated road just driving though a tent field.

@Horst

Unfortunately that'll be the cloaking device that comes standard with most EV's. One minute you can't see them and the suddenly, poof, it's running over women, children, dogs and old people.

Very funny. It turned from behind a wind breaker so yeah it was in no line of sight then was right in front of the tent pretty much silently. And the driver electric or not wouldn’t of been able to see is any children where there but if it had of been noisy they would at least hear it coming.

It wasnt a dig at electric cars just saying they don’t all make a noise at low speeds only the newer ones seems too.

I understand Tesla has an option to change the sound of the low speed warning. It hit the news recently because one of the alternative options - a repeating fart sound - didn't meet the regulations in one US state.

In all seriousness, sure there are a lot of BS 'reasons' given for not having an EV but the grid argument is currently quite true in many places. The odd charger here and there isn't a problem, but a wholesale move to EV charging at every home in Britain would be impossible nearly everywhere with current capacity. UPS has a depot in Kentish Town with electric vans and they can only charge more than 20 vans at a time with the help of their own battery storage facility, or the lights go out.

There are also a whole range of places near military bases where, although charging itself is not a problem, smart meters for overnight charging tariffs are not permitted because they interfere with radar installations, even up to 20 miles from the base. According to Smart Meter GB this is being worked on and should have a solution this year, but it is a real problem for some people.

Just looked up the warning noise thing. AVAS (Acoustic Vehicle Alerting Systems) became law in the EU in 2019 for all new approvals, and production of older designs from 2021. It is not required to be retrofitted to older vehicles.

The issue with Tesla is that the ability to play loud fart noises at will (yes, this is apparently a factory fit capability) through the 'Boombox' external speaker was deemed to be capable of drowning out the mandatory warning sound, and thus illegal.

@Horst. Apologies, couldn't help myself.

It's a tricky one really as it depends on the speed of the vehicle. Under 12mph EVs are as quiet as many ICE vehicles (not diesel obviously). Above 12mph tyre/road and wind noise dominate, hence why modern EV noise is limited.

If you have the time/inclination, this report is really interesting and covers a lot of research into relative vehicle noise.

Although on a camp site I can imagine vehicle noise and emissions to be more of a nuisance but we're so normalised to accept it.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4486/PPR525-assessing-the-perceived-safety-risk-from-quiet-electric-and-hybrid-vehicles.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjO7uboxf_2AhVBlFwKHeyVDgcQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3astwND3A7vqXBLd2BYRUr" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4486/PPR525-assessing-the-perceived-safety-risk-from-quiet-electric-and-hybrid-vehicles.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjO7uboxf_2AhVBlFwKHeyVDgcQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3astwND3A7vqXBLd2BYRUr

@Otherpeoplesteens

I believe the grid myth has been debunked by people who work in the field. I've watched interviews with experts who have no worries that it can cope (in the UK anyway).

I would imagine there may well be areas of the UK where mass charging may be difficult but engineering and infrastructures evolve. Therefore worrying about a theoretical scenario today, when mass EV uptake is 10-20 years away, is unwise.

I studied renewable energy production at uni over 20 years ago, when we generated barely any at all. Now over 40% is generated. Things change as demand/necessity dictates.

The beauty of EV's is that I can also stick solar panels on my roof and alleviate the grid for 8-9 months of the year. Perhaps not 100% but some is better than none.