To ask regarding COVID - what does 'we just have to live with it' look like in real life?

[Fay2121]

I keep hearing the phrase.

What is the reality of 'we just have to live with it'.

[quote MajorCarolDanvers]@HardyBuckette

You can have asymptomatic flu

How would anyone even know they had such a thing?

We've never routinely tested for flu in this country. And besides it's not pertinent to the conversation you quoted me from as that was in relation to someone who felt unwell and was there fore symptomatic. [/quote]
That was my point, people don't know. And yes it is pertinent to what you wrote because you said flu means you can't get out of bed. Which isn't true. Flu just means you have the flu virus.

Well our version of living with it seems to be whole teams on their arse because 2/3 of them are off sick and the other 1/3 are covering everyone else's work!

@Oldlearner

yes, it doesn't seem like we will ever just live with it. my Dc's school on the back of no more tests have sent out a communication to say we can't send our children to school with ANY symptom of a respiratory tract infection, if they develop a symptom while they are in school parents will be called to come and collect with the child is supervised at a distance. Sounds reasonable until I read the list of symptoms .... a cough – you may bring up mucus (phlegm) sneezing a stuffy or runny nose a sore throat headaches muscle aches breathlessness, tight chest or wheezing a high temperature feeling generally unwell

my DC was sent home today and isn't to return until they are well enough to attend... they have a runny nose and a bit stuffy, no temp and other wise maybe a very occasional cough.

I work in social care so I still have tests, DC is negative so I called the school to tell them she barely has a common cold and the office staff just kept repeating my dc can't return until well again when I said she's fine.

I’m sorry this has happened to you. I think the absence of testing is very quickly going to get absolutely untenable for parents who work outside the home. Our nursery is doing similar and as anyone who’s ever had a toddler knows, they’re snotty 90% of the time.

@AlwaysLatte

We're having to take some risks as my Dad is seriously ill with a lung condition and I do provide some care for him every day. Youngest is 11 and at a busy secondary school but too young for vaccine so he's more likely to catch it. We usually rely on tests. Happy to buy them but none available anywhere. .

He can get vaccinated now

Right so this proves the point that actually I can't win.

If I phone in sick my class get behind, they are emotional and upset without their routine, they don't get their interventions, their adults don't see a familiar and trusted face. I got back to a shitstorm of completed and uncompleted work in piles around the classroom and very unsettled children.

If I phone in sick I'm a lazy fucker, I'm paranoid about covid, I'm failing your children.

Excellent

Not my problem.

I think you'll find it is. If there are TAs available to supervise classes then yes that's preferable to sending children home so that parents who are performing essential roles / will struggle to pay their rent if they take further time off.

@AlwaysLatte

We're having to take some risks as my Dad is seriously ill with a lung condition and I do provide some care for him every day. Youngest is 11 and at a busy secondary school but too young for vaccine so he's more likely to catch it. We usually rely on tests. Happy to buy them but none available anywhere. .

I think he can get vaccinated now if that helps! amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/02/covid-vaccine-chilldren-england-appointments

@HardyBuckette

If you quote anything out of context you can rewrite it anyway you like

@TheKeatingFive

Not my problem.

I think you'll find it is. If there are TAs available to supervise classes then yes that's preferable to sending children home so that parents who are performing essential roles / will struggle to pay their rent if they take further time off.

You do realise that teachers are also parents and they also face this. Oh yeah I forgot, teacher parents don't count do they?

So exploiting minimum wage staff is ok then is it? Pay them for 5 hours a day but give them 12 hours of work and double the workload of a teacher. They are well within their rights to say no.

You do realise that teachers are also parents and they also face this.

Of course. They're much more likely to get paid for time they'd spend off work than many other jobs though.

So exploiting minimum wage staff is ok then is it? Pay them for 5 hours a day but give them 12 hours of work and double the workload of a teacher.

Not really sure where you're going with that one. Plenty of people in plenty of jobs have worked overtime and in roles they aren't familiar with to cover covid absences.

[quote MajorCarolDanvers]@HardyBuckette

If you quote anything out of context you can rewrite it anyway you like
[/quote]
It isn't out of context. The words you wrote were quite clear and were incorrect. If you wanted to tell the poster concerned that she was sufficiently ill and contagious that she ought to have stayed at home, you could've done that without wrongly claiming that flu like illness means you're too ill to get out of bed.

@Invasionofthegutsnatchers

Right so this proves the point that actually I can't win.

If I phone in sick my class get behind, they are emotional and upset without their routine, they don't get their interventions, their adults don't see a familiar and trusted face. I got back to a shitstorm of completed and uncompleted work in piles around the classroom and very unsettled children.

If I phone in sick I'm a lazy fucker, I'm paranoid about covid, I'm failing your children.

Excellent

I think everyone who has commented has said don’t go in if you aren’t well enough?

No one has said you’re lazy

@TheKeatingFive

You do realise that teachers are also parents and they also face this.

Of course. They're much more likely to get paid for time they'd spend off work than many other jobs though.

So exploiting minimum wage staff is ok then is it? Pay them for 5 hours a day but give them 12 hours of work and double the workload of a teacher.

Not really sure where you're going with that one. Plenty of people in plenty of jobs have worked overtime and in roles they aren't familiar with to cover covid absences.

They take unpaid leave as do others. Funny how people think teachers get it all on a plate.

Yes I am familiar with it but it is shocking when parents are happy with this set up and effectively babysitting because they stuck their head in the sand and don't give a toss about education.

Pulling together already happened before covid. Schools run on goodwill as it is with people working unpaid and doing jobs they are not meant to do. People were at their limits before covid not that you ever took any notice.

My understanding is that Covid is more contagious than colds or flu. The current BA.2 variant has an R of 12 which is similar to measles and far more contagious than Delta, colds or flu. While vaccines and a milder strain may mean that people are thankfully less likely to be seriously ill, it does mean that a lot more people will
be ill and unable to work and this has a knock on effect as we are seeing now. So right now 'living with it' means stress, disruption and struggling on.

@carefullycourageous

There is living with it badly - what the UK is doing now.

There is living with it better - more ventilation and other mitigations. I for one am fine with having masks in NHS settings for the foreseeable, because medical staff need to be working and vulnerable people need to avoid it if possible.

Looking forwards it is hard to say, we all hope the next variants are milder, we have to be alert - so I would also keep community surveillance (the ONS study).

I agree with this. Living with it properly would mean recognising that we need proper ventilation in workplaces and places of education, wearing face coverings in indoor spaces where we can’t stay a reasonable distance apart, and encouraging people to work from home if they are unwell. And recognising that it’s not a cold. It’s a disease which causes damage to organs and systems and can leave people disabled, whatever their health was like before they caught it. Not like a cold.

It would also mean maintaining the ONS testing regime as that’s the only way we can spot new and potentially more variants coming. It’s just luck that Omicron is not as deadly as earlier variants. There’s nothing to say the next one won’t be just as transmissible (waaaaaay more transmissible than flu) AND have more serious effects more widely.

It doesn’t mean just pretending it’s all gone away and carrying on as we were. Hospitalisations are rising a lot, and that’s proof enough that what we are doing now isn’t acceptable. That’s even before all the disruption to services. I hope none of you revelling in being ‘normal’ aren’t also complaining about your flights being cancelled or your operation delayed. This is what you are asking for.

@HardyBuckette

I don't agree.

You are quoting me out of context and thus it's no longer pertinent to the discussion that I was having with another person. In the context of my discussion with someone else I was quite correct.

Can I suggest pendants corner would be an area of the site you'd enjoy.

Yes I am familiar with it but it is shocking when parents are happy with this set up and effectively babysitting because they stuck their head in the sand and don't give a toss about education.

When people need to work to put food on the table, what else do you expect them to do?

Do you concern yourself with the specifics and conditions of other people's jobs? People who deliver a service for you for example?

with people working unpaid and doing jobs they are not meant to do.

If you think that's unique to schools you're very naive

It’s a pita when someone has it at work as we then have to make a load of changes

But we have got used to that

Feels like things are back to normal most of the time but life has changed we just getting on with it

@TheKeatingFive

Yes I am familiar with it but it is shocking when parents are happy with this set up and effectively babysitting because they stuck their head in the sand and don't give a toss about education.

When people need to work to put food on the table, what else do you expect them to do?

Do you concern yourself with the specifics and conditions of other people's jobs? People who deliver a service for you for example?

with people working unpaid and doing jobs they are not meant to do.

If you think that's unique to schools you're very naive

Well you could actually do something about it and show you care. Are you just going to sit back and let it happen? Of course you will, you always have done given you never acted before covid when teachers told you your kids education was at risk. You could get up off your backside and act but then that would take effort.

No I don't think it is unique at all, you just thought teachers got everything paid and so I answered your question. At what point did I say this was unique? You asked, I answered. Seems you forgot what you asked if you don't like the reality of the answer.

When teachers speak out we are shot down with no understanding of what he have to cope with. That's not OK

It should be recognised that good teachers love their jobs, are good at what they do yet are finding this a shitstorm. It's stressful. Minimising it helps nobody.

And yes we are getting on with it. Surely the definition of getting on with it is turning up for work every day and doing the job. Which we are all doing. If we weren't classescwould be sent home amidst uproar from working (and non working) parents. Would you rather the entire teaching population hand our notice in and walk out? Most of us couldn't afford to do that anyway.

Well you could actually do something about it and show you care. Are you just going to sit back and let it happen?

What do you expect people to do though? If you're unhappy with what you've been asked to do, take it up with your head. Why would a stranger on the internet get involved? As I asked before, do you go lobbying in relation to other people's jobs? I doubt it.

My own child's school hit a right spot with regards to staffing in November. Not to the point where they had to send classes home however. Since then it has been fine, my son's teacher has had two short absences that were covered by a substitute who was popular with the class. Perhaps this will change, but right now I have no issues there. So yeah, not sure what you're expecting.

@TheKeatingFive

Well you could actually do something about it and show you care. Are you just going to sit back and let it happen?

What do you expect people to do though? If you're unhappy with what you've been asked to do, take it up with your head. Why would a stranger on the internet get involved? As I asked before, do you go lobbying in relation to other people's jobs? I doubt it.

My own child's school hit a right spot with regards to staffing in November. Not to the point where they had to send classes home however. Since then it has been fine, my son's teacher has had two short absences that were covered by a substitute who was popular with the class. Perhaps this will change, but right now I have no issues there. So yeah, not sure what you're expecting.

I lobby for things that have an impact on me and yes in other job roles.

Education will impact on us all so surely it is within the interest of all the population to push for a better education. If you don't understand this then that is a sad state of affairs. I think its a bit sad when a parent says they don't care about lobbying for their own kids education. That is sad.

In my school we had 1 member of staff who wasn't ill at one point and we still got told to open and faced abuse from parents because of it. A whole school with 1 member of staff who wasn't a teacher? It is a joke. Staff off ill for weeks and weeks too, not just 2 or 3 days.

I think it is a bit of a misconception that people are testing and isolating when well. The majority of people seem to only be testing if they feel unwell in the first place.

The problems with the BA.2 variant are that a) it is extremely transmissible and b) it appears to be making many people unwell enough to at least take to their beds for a few days. Or maybe it doesn't make people feel more ill but so many people are catching it that there are just a lot of people around with symptoms. This will lead to lots of absence from work. I was reading in the FT that white collar office workers have been badly hit by this round, whereas "blue collar" workers were hit more by the first Omicron strain, presumably because they couldn't work from home. I wonder if more employers will step up WFH again to avoid sickness absence.

It's an issue with public services though as we have already seen with education and healthcare. One of the other issues is that people don't seem to be developing much immunity by catching it.

If you don't understand this then that is a sad state of affairs. I think its a bit sad when a parent says they don't care about lobbying for their own kids education.

But my own kids education is fine. I'm perfectly happy with it.

As for the sector as a whole, I have limited knowledge, but as a starting point I'd probably be more concerned with nursing staff, delivery drivers, people working in food production plants. And even at that, beyond signing petitions about zero hours contracts, I'm not sure what, with my limited experience and understanding of these issues, I'm supposed to be doing.