To think rent is so bloody unfair

[Tar19891]

My rent is 800 per month. A mortgage on the same value flat would be 450 per month. Not in London obviously. It’s not fair is it?

@candycane222

It is unfair OP, deeply unfair. I don't want to depress you but unfortunately it seems to be getting worse as well.

Like some pps I am lucky enough and old enough to have been able to buy - but I renting as a young adult in the 80s I lived in some fab places and had plenty left over to eat out, treat myself to nice clothes etc on a not at all spectacular graduate salary.

Agree absolutely that turning homes into a "store of wealth" has really screwed things up for younger people. Incidentally, a lot of those "storing wealth" are Russian

Incidentally, I've never met a Russian landlord. But don't let that stop you casually dropping in that piece of utter irrelevance.

@dfendyr - there is no such thing as an 'accidental' landlord. That phrase is so stupendously simplistic that I can't believe people swallow it at face value.

Stop going on about "all the repairs and maintenance". In the 2 years I rented, there was ONE issue with the flat that cost the landlord £200. That's all!!

The house I have now bought, will need lots of work doing to it and money spent but that's because a doer-upper is all I can afford and... I don't mind! It's mine!

@MrsTerryPratchett

Why don’t you buy a house then If it’s that easy ?

Alright there Marie Antoinette.

People also profit off growing food, selling energy, providing dental/medical care, etc etc. People on the same income can differ widely in their circumstances. Some spend and enjoy, some save, some really struggle to survive. Should the childless resent the money spent on child benefit, child care, education? Should they have the option to use that money for retirement? Do landlords make as much money out of their properties as they would investing in companies that use foreign slave labour? If you pay tax on your earnings you contribute far more to the IR than the multi-national companies and obscenely rich celebrities who twist the system. It would make more financial sense to chase them than the claimants who commit benefit fraud to survive. As the elderly population rises beyond the point where current workers can support the expense of pensions/medical care etc should they take pension cuts? The concept of fairness extends well beyond the landlord (both private and council) debate.

I think you are simplifying what else you pay with a mortgage. You also need life insurance, insurance, fees, solicitor payments etc etc!

@Makeitsoso

But to let mortages are silly money compared to an average one. Two types of people are making money from property A) banks B) slum landlords who don’t care about anything, take peoples benefits (well beyond Housing element) and will evict people if repairs are needed etc.

People who aren’t especially making money are accidental landlords with morals.

I’m not an accidental landlord but I do have morals.

Yes I own property that I rent out. I pay insurances on that property. My tenants know that they only have to text or call and any problems will be sorted ASAP as we manage the properties ourselves. We haven’t put the rent up at all since we bought as we have had the same tenants. In one case this is 17 years.

I don’t know what else to tell you, but not all landlords are scumbags. And I do feel there should be greater rights for tenants.

I think it would make more sense just to have proper enforcement of the regulations. Many many years ago local authorities used to employ tenancy officers and have properly resourced environmental-health departments who would serve notices on private landlords and take court action where necessary. Most tenants just are not able to enforce their rights.

My local council has a landlord accreditation scheme for landlord who meet their standards/criteria. These landlords are then able to advertise their properties via the councils home finder website (where the council advertise social housing properties) and get certain protections such as the council paying the deposit.

Why don’t you buy a house then If it’s that easy ?

Alright there Marie Antoinette.

But what's wrong with saying that? If the op can rent at 800 but can buy at 450, why not buy the house like the landlord did? 00

@Malalaa

You pay £800 a month rent. Plus home insurance, bills, council tax etc etc. The unfairness is that paying your rent won't make a blind bit of difference when you apply for a mortgage. You can afford to pay £800 a month on rent, you can prove that you've paid on time every month for how eve many years, but this is completely ignored by lenders and may not be able to get a mortgage anyway. And that's even if you are able to save for a deposit in the first place!

But that’s not how it works. The reason a deposit is required is to protect the lender if the value of the property drops Ie market conditions or you don’t maintain it, it lessens the risk they are taking on you, that if you default they can get their money back. The deposit is the buffer. It’s nothing to do with if you can pay or not.

And just because someone has always been able to pay doesn’t mean they always will be, peoples circumstances change, houses are repossessed, illness, job losses, children come along etc, some people don’t care for their properties and they drop in value, so if you are going to be lent a very large sum of money then the lender wants to mitigate their risks.

@Tar19891

Plus the landlord is building equity. Come on, we’re all adults as you say. Just admit to profiting off the situation

Of course they are. It's pointless starting a thread like this on here as half on MN seem to own rental properties. I await them all bleating about how they have to as savings don't pay much interest blah blah. People getting richer of the backs of others misery.

The problem is a massive housing shortage due to our planning system.

So what should change? Developers want to build three 14 storey blocks of flats where I live which will be 250+ flats. We genuinely don't have the infrastructure to support that many extra people. Doctors, dentists, schools are full to overflowing. Unless the infrastructure is put in place to support the extra housing the area is just going to get worse. It's not as simple as just building houses/flats.

@Hospedia

I think it would make more sense just to have proper enforcement of the regulations. Many many years ago local authorities used to employ tenancy officers and have properly resourced environmental-health departments who would serve notices on private landlords and take court action where necessary. Most tenants just are not able to enforce their rights.

My local council has a landlord accreditation scheme for landlord who meet their standards/criteria. These landlords are then able to advertise their properties via the councils home finder website (where the council advertise social housing properties) and get certain protections such as the council paying the deposit.

Agreed! Why not bring back the Fair Rent Tribunals?

@Bjarnum

People also profit off growing food, selling energy, providing dental/medical care, etc etc. People on the same income can differ widely in their circumstances. Some spend and enjoy, some save, some really struggle to survive. Should the childless resent the money spent on child benefit, child care, education? Should they have the option to use that money for retirement? Do landlords make as much money out of their properties as they would investing in companies that use foreign slave labour? If you pay tax on your earnings you contribute far more to the IR than the multi-national companies and obscenely rich celebrities who twist the system. It would make more financial sense to chase them than the claimants who commit benefit fraud to survive. As the elderly population rises beyond the point where current workers can support the expense of pensions/medical care etc should they take pension cuts? The concept of fairness extends well beyond the landlord (both private and council) debate.

100%

But there is something completely twisted about active participation in shelter speculation on an individual level. And personally I think it's a completely and utterly vacuous way to invest. It's the type of thing people who aren't capable of understanding pensions or equities do, without realising their direct participation is one of the most socially reprehensible decisions they could make.

It seems every other post I see on here at the minute is someone advising another to not leave their rented house and to wait for the court judgment and bailiffs to throw them out. The more commonplace this becomes the more landlords will have to out their prices up to cover for such eventualities - only for people to then complain further at the cost.

Tennats pay x amount and then that's it for the month, they won't be stung with unexpected repair costs, that's the landlords issue. The mortgage is only a proportion of the landlord and home owners costs but I think renters forget this

And if renting really is that much cheaper and the life as a tenant that much easier... Then why all the wise rich people don't sell up and move into rented? Eh? The rich one's definitely can afford the wonderful "services of landlords".

I'm so happy I bought - I'm saving a grand a month! I'm not rich enough to rent!

@Earlydancing

Why don’t you buy a house then If it’s that easy ?

Alright there Marie Antoinette.

But what's wrong with saying that? If the op can rent at 800 but can buy at 450, why not buy the house like the landlord did? 00

Because, as may have already explained, including me - when you are paying £800 a month to rent something that you could be paying £450 on a mortgage for, you are crippled by at least £350 in your ability to save that deposit.

It's not hard to get your head around.

@Earlydancing

Why don’t you buy a house then If it’s that easy ?

Alright there Marie Antoinette.

But what's wrong with saying that? If the op can rent at 800 but can buy at 450, why not buy the house like the landlord did? 00

Either the tenant has a poor credit history, hasn't got enough deposit or doesn't meet the income-multiple test (or doesn't want the hassle of owning, but likes sniping from the sidelines ).

@Nsky

Some depend on your rent, £800 is cheap, here south east more than that. What is wrong, lack of council housing, buying should be banned

£800 is not cheap. The south east is just ridiculously expensive.

YANBU at all OP. Fuck landlords. Social housing should be available to everyone who can't afford to buy.

It seems every other post I see on here at the minute is someone advising another to not leave their rented house and to wait for the court judgment and bailiffs to throw them out.

Because if you've been evicted, even through no fault of your own, many councils won't class you as homeless until a court order is issued therefore you won't get any help with finding another property (including accessing emergency accommodation via the council) until that point.

@QueenCamilla

Stop going on about "all the repairs and maintenance". In the 2 years I rented, there was ONE issue with the flat that cost the landlord £200. That's all!!

The house I have now bought, will need lots of work doing to it and money spent but that's because a doer-upper is all I can afford and... I don't mind! It's mine!

And that was probably pure luck, we owned a house for 10 years that nothing went wrong in at all, two weeks after we moved out the cellar flooded.

@Earlydancing

Why don’t you buy a house then If it’s that easy ?

Alright there Marie Antoinette.

But what's wrong with saying that? If the op can rent at 800 but can buy at 450, why not buy the house like the landlord did? 00

Because you need a deposit. Which would be affordable to save for if you were paying 450 but not paying 800. So it's a vicious circle of unaffordability.

Many people pay between 1/3 and 1/2 of their income on housing costs. Which is unaffordable. Making saving extremely difficult. While house prices increase meaning the target amount keeps increasing.

Is that really so difficult to understand?

Maybe those landlords should just save themselves a lot of trouble and sell to families @Barkingmadhouse. I wonder why they don’t do that if it’s all so much hassle for them? 🤔

The more commonplace this becomes the more landlords will have to out their prices up to cover for such eventualities - only for people to then complain further at the cost.

This is not how the level of rents gets set.