To think rent is so bloody unfair

[Tar19891]

My rent is 800 per month. A mortgage on the same value flat would be 450 per month. Not in London obviously. It’s not fair is it?

There has never been a time where everyone owns their own property

Has there ever been a time with such huge disparity between wages & house prices?

The point is for many young people it's not about living in a yurt or earning more & why should it be. Their chance of owning will have more to do with whether their parents owned &/or can help them. How anyone can argue that's a good thing is beyond me. This thread has been quite eye opening!

Repairs can easily cost that.

Only if you’ve bought a pretty shit property. Our house is 400 years old and Grade ll listed, we don’t and have never in over 20 years spent £4,200 on repairs in a year.

I have 800 per month available to spend on rent. A mortgage on the same value flat would be 450 per month but I’m not yet ready to buy/want to live here temporarily/need somewhere to live urgently. No properties exist that I can rent. It’s not fair is it?

Lack of rental supply and high rents are two sides of the same coin. High rents are not caused by landlords deciding to charge high rents. And they've got no (direct) correlation to what a mortgage would cost. Rents are driven up by lack of supply and high levels of demand from tenants. Those who would like to create a hostile regulatory and tax environment for landlords, be careful what you wish for! That is not compatible with low rents. What you actually want are excess landlords competing for tenants. You'll just have to hold your noses

The housing market is dysfunctional.
That is not the fault of landlords.
This and previous governments have no coherent housing policy.
That is not the fault of landlords.
Neither Tories nor Labour have a coherent workable housing policy.
That is not the fault of landlords.
There needs to be a huge housebuilding effort by social housing providers. There isn't.
I am a landlord, and it's not my fault.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/121626182?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=lettings&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_LET

Lots of garden for £800 a month !

Unfair ? I guess it depends where you live & I don't live here either

@LardyDee

I have 800 per month available to spend on rent. A mortgage on the same value flat would be 450 per month but I’m not yet ready to buy/want to live here temporarily/need somewhere to live urgently. No properties exist that I can rent. It’s not fair is it?

Lack of rental supply and high rents are two sides of the same coin. High rents are not caused by landlords deciding to charge high rents. And they've got no (direct) correlation to what a mortgage would cost. Rents are driven up by lack of supply and high levels of demand from tenants. Those who would like to create a hostile regulatory and tax environment for landlords, be careful what you wish for! That is not compatible with low rents. What you actually want are excess landlords competing for tenants. You'll just have to hold your noses

This is the perfect storm we have at the moment. Higher regulation leads to higher costs of which you can absorb only up to a point. A significant number of landlords are selling up, which is why rents have risen. As pp said you need an environment which promotes the renting out of property, you will then see overssupply and consequently rents will fall.

Alternatively the Housing Associations which are the social housing in England need to get there act together and build more properties for social tenants. Why aren't they?

@EyespywithmylittleEYE3

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/121626182?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=lettings&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_LET

Lots of garden for £800 a month !

Unfair ? I guess it depends where you live & I don't live here either

That’s gorgeous. And worth £800 of anyone’s money. I guess employment opportunities are a bit thin on the ground in Salop.

Their chance of owning will have more to do with whether their parents owned &/or can help them
Or making the right decision at the right time. Start PT work as a student, put money aside. Study, get a secure job, share with housemate and save more. Get a promotion and buy your first flat. Get another promotion, get a bigger flat/ small house. Only then get married and have kids. Work FT, more promotions and get that dream 3 bedroom with garden.

If you start with the kids, you are without a doubt making the dream much harder to reach.

@Blossomtoes

Repairs can easily cost that.

Only if you’ve bought a pretty shit property. Our house is 400 years old and Grade ll listed, we don’t and have never in over 20 years spent £4,200 on repairs in a year.

Are you including basic maintenance in that? Rent has to cover basic maintenance too.

Are you really saying that in 20 years, you haven’t needed to replace a kitchen, bathroom, boiler, fence, window anything that could cost more than £4000?

Paying market rate rent should come with the expectation that fixtures and fittings are a decent standard, and that has to be paid for.

Are you really saying that in 20 years, you haven’t needed to replace a kitchen, bathroom, boiler, fence, window anything that could cost more than £4000?

We’ve replaced the boiler once - £2k. We’ve also replaced the kitchen and one bathroom but that was improvement, not repairs and there wasn’t much wrong with the old ones, they were just dated.

@FairyCakeWings

One thing to add also, is that homeowners rarely keep their own houses in tip top condition, yet the expectation is that rental properties must be.

I say that having kept the house we first bought and now rent it out. Since moving out, we've replaced all windows and doors, the boiler, fixed a slight leaking roof, fitted a new bathroom and replaced an American style fridge freezer, dishwasher and washing machine.

We just couldn't afford to do much of that when we lived there but a change in financial circumstances meant that the house is now way better that it's ever been.

I'm not looking for sympathy or tiny violins but we've spent over £13k in 10 years of renting. That's about 80% of total profit over the term.

But short term profit isn't the goal, or charging market rates. It's more about treating people like human beings and providing quality.

We’ve also replaced the kitchen and one bathroom but that was improvement, not repairs and there wasn’t much wrong with the old ones, they were just dated.

So you'd need to replace them for tenants too! When I was a landlord I penciled in eight-years life for kitchens and bathrooms. They get heavy wear I found in twenty years that would be two and a half kitchens and bathrooms and two boilers probably about £35-40k

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/121510304?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=lettings&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_LET

@LardyDee

We’ve also replaced the kitchen and one bathroom but that was improvement, not repairs and there wasn’t much wrong with the old ones, they were just dated.

So you'd need to replace them for tenants too! When I was a landlord I penciled in eight-years life for kitchens and bathrooms. They get heavy wear I found in twenty years that would be two and a half kitchens and bathrooms and two boilers probably about £35-40k

Why would kitchens and bathrooms get heavier wear in a rental than an owner occupied property? Or a boiler need to be replaced more often? My only recent experience of rental properties were those my son rented, neither of which had seen a new kitchen or bathroom for at least 30 years.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/121696580?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=lettings&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_LET

Wow !

Or making the right decision at the right time.

So what does that look like?

Start PT work as a student, put money aside. Study, get a secure job, share with housemate and save more. Get a promotion and buy your first flat. Get another promotion, get a bigger flat/ small house. Only then get married and have kids. Work FT, more promotions and get that dream 3 bedroom with garden.

It's 2022, so I'm not sure why you think all the above is still applicable. Most FTBs are older & earning well already. Ever increasing prices & high prices make it harder to move up the ladder.

If you start with the kids, you are without a doubt making the dream much harder to reach.

Who is starting with the kids? Young people are having fewer children, having them later or not having them at all.

Why would kitchens and bathrooms get heavier wear in a rental than an owner occupied property? Or a boiler need to be replaced more often? My only recent experience of rental properties were those my son rented, neither of which had seen a new kitchen or bathroom for at least 30 years.

Hi @Blossomtoes, it does depend on the market and the expectation of tenants. Ours were rented to young highly-paid workers. All I can say is that they usually started to show signs of wear after five years and were pretty tired by ten. We didn't want things falling apart and needing to be bodged while people were living there. That's stressful for all concerned and often ultimately more expensive, especially if leaks are involved. It made sense to replace things completely between lets at around the eight-year point. Nicer flats attract better tenants at higher rents.

But there are other approaches, our own kitchen is probably around the same age as those in your son's flats

tarting up a rental can enable you to charge a higher price.

@PigletJohn

tarting up a rental can enable you to charge a higher price.

Exactly, it's a business decision, not an act of philanthropy

One thing to add also, is that homeowners rarely keep their own houses in tip top condition, yet the expectation is that rental properties must be.

I've done a lot (about 40) of viewings recently. They tended to fall into 3 categories
A) houses which were on the market as the result of death / going into a home - invariably they needed a lot of work as the owner had lost the capacity or inclination to do any work many years previously
B) other owner occupied properties - they were generally in pretty good condition and you could usually move straight in
C) properties which were currently / most recently rented out - without exception they had been thoroughly neglected in the important ways but occasionally tarted up in the cosmetic ways that attract tenants (e.g. a fresh coat of magnolia over the rising damp...)

As I'm being evicted by my landlord I don't have time to hang around while a property is rewired and replastered, so the only properties I was able to offer on were those in the second category.

Of course the key difference between the two is that the owner occupier controls their living conditions, whereas the tenant is at the mercy of a landlord who may or may not give a shit. Many people will accept things for themselves that they'd never expect a paying customer to accept - for instance, you might put milk that's a couple of days past its use by in your coffee at home, but you'd be horrified if a barista did the same in a café.

What is unfair is your ability to pay £850 rent in full on time every month for years will not be taken into consideration when you apply for a mortgage. In fact, paying the rent every month has almost certainly prevented you from saving the massive deposit you require

@EyespywithmylittleEYE3

In the past councils gave their tenants life long tenancies However, this can mean that over time, you could have a single elderly person living in a 3 or 4 bedroom property. Where the property was previously fully occupied. I believe that some councils have now changed to 25 year tenancies or less, to attempt to keep their properties fully occupied

What they've done, that change, is very very bad and it's a big reason why lots of domestic violence murders happen and why more vulnerable people are homeless. Cos council downsizers have taken all the one and two bedroom flats.

Or making the right decision at the right time.Start PT work as a student, put money aside. Study, get a secure job, share with housemate and save more. Get a promotion and buy your first flat. Get another promotion, get a bigger flat/ small house. Only then get married and have kids. Work FT, more promotions and get that dream 3 bedroom with garden.

Start PT work as a student, put money aside. Savings so ineligible for benefits when get ill, so spend all savings then nowhere to live. So can't recover and forever ill on benefits homeless or always at risk.

Study, get a secure job, share with a housemate and save more. Get made redundant or get ill so spend all savings on rent and then council won't house you because of no children. So no savings, ill, and no home.

Get another promotion get another flat/small house. Only then get married and have kids. Husband starts being violent when you're pregnant and/or walks out after the children are born and/or one or both of you get ill or made redundant. Spend all savings on mortgage and/or have to flee to a refuge and/or divorce leaves not enough money to buy a home. Private landlords won't take disabled or single parents or children or benefits. So no savings and no home.

@EyespywithmylittleEYE3

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/121696580?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=lettings&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_LET

Wow !

That’s horrible. It would be like living in a village hall.

@nosafeguardingadults

Or making the right decision at the right time.Start PT work as a student, put money aside. Study, get a secure job, share with housemate and save more. Get a promotion and buy your first flat. Get another promotion, get a bigger flat/ small house. Only then get married and have kids. Work FT, more promotions and get that dream 3 bedroom with garden.

Start PT work as a student, put money aside. Savings so ineligible for benefits when get ill, so spend all savings then nowhere to live. So can't recover and forever ill on benefits homeless or always at risk.

Study, get a secure job, share with a housemate and save more. Get made redundant or get ill so spend all savings on rent and then council won't house you because of no children. So no savings, ill, and no home.

Get another promotion get another flat/small house. Only then get married and have kids. Husband starts being violent when you're pregnant and/or walks out after the children are born and/or one or both of you get ill or made redundant. Spend all savings on mortgage and/or have to flee to a refuge and/or divorce leaves not enough money to buy a home. Private landlords won't take disabled or single parents or children or benefits. So no savings and no home.

It’s not compulsory for your life to go tits up and for you to become a dole bludger you know ? Millions of people sail through every single day of their lives without getting sick, without being involved in domestic violence, without getting divorced ? That’s incredibly blinkered world view you have where everything is gonna go wrong every turn and as a result of which you shouldn’t take responsibility for yourself because that’ll make you in eligible for benefits… the point of benefits is theyre your safety net when your savings run out not instead of the savings in the first place you’re meant to get your shit together before you need the benefits ….. did that need saying ?