To think rent is so bloody unfair

[Tar19891]

My rent is 800 per month. A mortgage on the same value flat would be 450 per month. Not in London obviously. It’s not fair is it?

If you are a landlord why are you not insured for your tenants loss of earnings to cover the rent

Insurance isn’t expensive I have absolutely everything covered plus home cover for boiler issues/plumbing etc

*comparing

I’ve been lucky why pretend it’s such hardship

Its bizarre that every landlord on MNs not only keeps the property in top notch condition but loses money 😆

It's just it was an expense rather than an investment.

I think the point is the cost of the expense is too high...

@Blossomtoes
If I were a tenant, I would have taken that charge for the blind to the tenancy deposit scheme and possibly won. Some landlords are disgusting. And I say that as a ll.

I’ve had tenants surprised, even eternally grateful, for not charging them a bean when they move out despite x, y and z coming back on the check out report. Why would I care if the house is dirty or something is damaged if I’m doing a refurb?

I’ve also had the odd tenant, who think they shouldn’t pay for damage (way beyond fwat) and cleaning bills etc when I am not refurbing. I usually swallow at least half of the costs and tenants are agreeable to this when the agent explains. The only 2 times something did go to tds, I won simply because I don’t take the piss.

I’m glad we brought when we did, 12 years ago, I don’t think I could afford anything now. Maybe a one bedroom flat.
It’s of course true that many people pay more in private rent than they do with a mortgage, they just can’t afford the deposit.

Someone I know brought a house in the London suburbs in 2000 for 70k, it’s now worth 700k. They don’t live there anymore ,they sold it a long time ago.

For some reason we celebrate house prices going up, when it isn’t really something that we should celebrate.

We already have a generation priced out the market, surely it’s only going to get worse?

Can there be a sensible review on how house prices rise?

Well, I've had to replace my central heating boiler, fridge/freezer and washing machine in the last year alone as well as paying communal charges for the development of over £1000 per year and last year I had an expensive roof repair, so I think you're paying for someone else to take on all that risk and deal with the ever increasing admin too.

So your landlord is doing all that for around £3300 per year if a basic rate taxpayer. Plus all the admin of complying with the ever increasing legal responsibilities.

In some countries e.g. Germany leases are longer but tenants are expected to be really independent and pay for many of their own repairs and even provide their own kitchens! Extremely high standards and high regulatory burden on landlords is not really compatible with low rents. Smaller landlords are selling up which means less properties for rent = higher rents.

And your landlord will have paid stamp duty as well as that 15% deposit.

Equally that money could have been invested in a fund and so have contributed to the wealth of a fund managers and the banking industry and not the housing market...

I haven’t made much money from rent as sick but my property value has increased so it’s like a savings account where would I earned so much interest in savings over the last 20 years I wouldn’t have I have been lucky

As I have boiler cover etc (£40 a month) someone is out very quickly. I treat my tenants well and they look after my flat.

Why landlords are such grasping, morality-free fuckers, mostly. Can’t wrap my head around it
Of course you can't, you're full of resentment and desperate for blame.

Oh boohoo 40% of rental income is taxed
Who is moaning? Not me, just trying g to educate those who seem to fail to grasp the concept that a large chunk of rental income goes to the government for many, not their greedy pockets as they like to calculate.

@rugbunch

I’ve been lucky why pretend it’s such hardship

Its bizarre that every landlord on MNs not only keeps the property in top notch condition but loses money 😆

I didn't do either! It was frankly shabby, but lucrative. But then I stopped being a landlord 😆

*as yet (not sick bloody auto correct)

For some reason we celebrate house prices going up, when it isn’t really something that we should celebrate.

Absolutely, it makes things harder for most so I don't get it.

I sympathise with renters. I rented for 10 years. I know what it's like and the frustration to see a big chunk of your income going on rent, but that frustration doesn't have to turn to resentment with very wrong assumptions about all landlords.

@vivainsomnia

Why landlords are such grasping, morality-free fuckers, mostly. Can’t wrap my head around it Of course you can't, you're full of resentment and desperate for blame.

Oh boohoo 40% of rental income is taxed
Who is moaning? Not me, just trying g to educate those who seem to fail to grasp the concept that a large chunk of rental income goes to the government for many, not their greedy pockets as they like to calculate.

Stop lying. We all know that there is still a 20% relief on mortgage interest costs even for higher rate tax payers. No one is paying 40%.

Well many private rent because that’s all that’s available. Social housing/council housing is now limited, the right to buy in the 80s kind of ended it. They weren’t rebuilt, atleast not enough to cater for the growing population.
In the 60s/70s, most working people lived in council houses, they were homes for life.

We already have a generation priced out the market, surely it’s only going to get worse?

What on earth is the future going to look like? We will have more & more people renting into retirement so how's that going to work looking at pension statistics. We are going to have more older people in general due to ageing population. Low birth rates already & more wage stagnation for young people but higher taxes eg student loans, income. I predict young people with the means will emigrate. How attractive will we be to immigrants with low growth but high taxes & high cost of living? That's why I think some kind of wealth tax is inevitable.

It’s rental income …

No you are not you are telling people that are desperate to have the security of their own place that it’s not so great. Well it’s far far bette to be in your position be grateful you are when so many will always be stuck renting knowing a landlord can at anytime give them two months notice and they loose their home

@rugbunch

I’ve been lucky why pretend it’s such hardship

Its bizarre that every landlord on MNs not only keeps the property in top notch condition but loses money 😆

Well I'm a LL. I certainly do keep my properties in top notch condition as a) they are my investment and it makes sense to and b) you get much better tenants and more easily when the property is lovely c) it would upset me to see my properties looking shit

However, I do make a shit ton of money. But that's because my houses are in London, I bought around 30 years ago when everything was very cheap, and all mortgages are paid off. And I acknowledge that I have been extremely lucky, and almost nothing is down to hard work or anything like that - just luck plus the ability to spot an opportunity.

However if I had bought fairly recently and had mortgages, as well as all the other expenses, I can't see how I'd make any money at all. (Although it could still be worth doing for long term capital growth, but that's debatable).

Of course you can't, you're full of resentment and desperate for blame.
Resentment for what? I’m a home-owner and a high earner: I’m all right, Jack – as I believe the landlord motto goes. But amazingly, it’s possible to be able to afford to have more than one home and be a landlord, and simply not do it! Not once have I accidentally landlorded.

@HRTQueen

If you are a landlord why are you not insured for your tenants loss of earnings to cover the rent

Insurance isn’t expensive I have absolutely everything covered plus home cover for boiler issues/plumbing etc

We were just very selective with the tenants. We rented to young professional couples with two incomes and high employability. The small remaining risk we were comfortable to bear ourself ( bearing in mind the rent remains a recoverable debt). We sometimes asked for guarantors too.

But that's because my houses are in London, I bought around 30 years ago when everything was very cheap, and all mortgages are paid off. And I acknowledge that I have been extremely lucky, and almost nothing is down to hard work or anything like that - just luck plus the ability to spot an opportunity.

And this why I understand why young people can feel resentful, there is nothing they can do about the fact they were born later. If I was born later I wouldn't be a homeowner.

I rented out my flat for two years. Mortgage was £550. Rent was £750 but the estate agents took £100 so I made £100 'profit' if you like a month.

When they moved out, they left £3000 worth of damage that had to be put right before I could move back in. That's on top of the brand new boiler that was fitted in my absence by stupid property agency (£1000) - something they charged me for but never actually fitted - although didn't suss them on that until it was too late to do anything about it. I had been abroad.

Not everyone is 'making' money out of tenants. People have various reasons for renting out property. I really didn't make anything, I made a loss.

In your case, yes, you are paying their mortgage plus more. It's heartbreaking it really is! When I sold my flat we had to rent for a while - I paid over £80k in rent before we had saved up enough deposit. BUT it is what it is. However, lets say you decided to squat and pay nothing for 12 months, there's precious little they can do. That's the risk they take every time they rent the property out.

@rugbunch

I’ve been lucky why pretend it’s such hardship

Its bizarre that every landlord on MNs not only keeps the property in top notch condition but loses money 😆

We don’t lose money. But we aren’t turning a healthy enough profit to be paying tax if any at all. That’s because we have over the past 5/6 years been refurbing, changing plastic windows for better ones, external doors to composite and so forth.

I think anyone, who is making vast sums will be keeping their mouths shut or are not of the MN demographic. The issue is a refurb will cost 15k plus. But the rental uplift from that investment will at most be a 5% gross. This 15k + is a massive dent in income terms for us and turns us from making money to almost nothing and paying a couple of hundred in tax, if that. This 15k + also takes 10 years to recoup.

The question then is, do we really need to refurb? Well, no, we don’t have to. Things can be repaired. Tired kitchens and bathrooms are normally serviceable as long as they’ve been maintained, taps replaced etc.

My elderly friend is an owner occupier and his house has seen decidedly better days. It looks like nothing has been replaced since the 1970s. But we wouldn’t want to live like that, so why should our tenants?

So what if they are professionals anyone can loose their jobs. It’s foolish not to be insured and it’s not expensive

If you don’t want to live in a communist society (which is has proved a disaster time and time again) then some people will own more and some will own less.
People buy houses via hard work, sacrifice or sheer luck and good fortune.
If you have not had luck or good fortune in terms of family helping or been old enough to buy a house before 2005 then it’s down to hard work and sacrifice.
Ask yourself. What have YOU personally done to buy a home since turning an adult?
Have you waited to have kids or made the decision to have fewer or none at all in order to own a home?
Moved to a cheap area / run down place in order to get on the housing ladder?
Have you done everything possible to maximise earning potential including choosing a partner carefully who will help you achieve your goal?
What about striving for a better job / wage. Working 2 or 3 jobs.
Because I can tell you, some people have done most of these things just to get on the housing ladder and it’s taken many years and much sacrifice.
Sure for some it’s easy. They get given a house by mum and dad. But that’s how a capitalist society works. Some have more, some less.
So many are not thinking longer term. You may not have had the bank of mum and dad but what have you been doing / are you doing to create the bank of mum and dad for your own kids?
The other option is everything you own would be taken and shared amongst everyone - never works.