Stop implying it's not so bad now because you grew up with no central heating and scraped ice off the windows.

[flashbac]

FFS

I also had no central heating in the house as a kid. There was a hole under the bathtub that cats would use to come in while you were freezing arse off on the loo. It was bloody grim. I don't wish it on anybody. People shouldn't have to be uncomfortable in their own bleeding homes for goodness sakes. It shouldn't be happening in this day and age. Stop defending it.

I didn't have an open fire in the 70s. Rented property with a gas fire, that was the only heating. My ILs were in a new council property and again no open fires, they had electric central heating which they couldn't afford to use.

@Pyewhacket

And about a third of those eligible to vote didn't vote. Maybe if more of them had turned out to vote we'd have a different government.

............... who's to say they wouldn't have voted for the Conservatives ?.

The fact that when it was a clear Corbyn - Johnston choice in most of England shows that given such a big difference they simply could not be bothered. This is more scary than voting for Johnston.

YABU because noone's defending it. Sharing experiences of hardship and tips on how we coped is not defending it. We understand that when the gov't borrows to fund spending it has to be repaid in the future, but no one should be forced to choose between heating or food. The government must do better to help the less well off.

YABU to not be angrier (I know)

The Prime Minister is a liar and a cheat.

The Chancellor is married to a billionaire that has money invested in a dictator that is murdering children.

And there are still people, even on this site, that say 'well, you should put a fucking jumper on'.

This fucking country is fucked.

All the people who died early of preventable chest infections, carbon monoxide poisoning etc aren't here to tell us about it, are they?

Often this is the response to things have never been as bad or we are going back to Victorian times neither which are true

But we should not have such levels of poverty we have so much wealth in this country it’s wrong as is the growing gap between those that have and those who don’t. No one in this country should have to make decisions over food or heating

@Becca19962014

My room is 5c, sleeting here. It’s not hit 15c in months. Winter 2020/21 I could afford any hour a day when really bad.

I can’t afford heating, my benefits won’t stretch to the increase in standing charge, never mind per unit and it’s not just electric but water too - the money the government allows for single person on benefits is far lower than my bills. I’ve nowhere else I can save. And my gp surgery have written to say medication and devices (splints/blood sugar monitors) available elsewhere inc online must now be purchased due to nhs financial pressures. I’m on daily meds for suicide risk. Clearly not much longer and the combination, even if I could pay, I cannot buy due to danger they present.

Bright side? Think of the money I’ll save them being dead.

I’m not alone in that. Had messages this morning from others in same position. One has sleep apnoea and can’t afford to run her machine every night AND is now expected to pay for meds. Certainly cannot afford heating. She’s been admitted twice this winter with hypothermia.

Becca I am so desperately sorry. There must be some help out there to fund your necessary meds? You write so eloquently; can you contact your MP? There must be some work around for this? Perhaps more knowledgeable posters might have some advice? Am sending love and all good thoughts x

@orangeisthenewpuce

I think what the posts are saying is that living in a cold house is doable. And people who've done that know this. If we can't afford the rises in energy costs then we need to make changes. Some people aren't used to putting on jumpers and wearing socks in the house. My husband who was born in the 60's has never lived in a house without central heating.

I was born i n the 60s too and I knew no one who had central heating, so your DH's parents must have been quite well-off. I remember being constantly sick with colds and flu as a child and being unable to sleep for the cold, despite the hot-water bottle, which so rapidly cooled off. I think regardless of the fact that people survived it, it's not unacceptable in this day and age, with all the technology, that so many of us are unable to keep the house warm enough. It's not just cold either, but the problem of damp which leads to mould which causes damage to the lungs and can lead to premature death. This and the energy companies are making profits that are more eye-watering than ever before. They will literally kill people with their greed if not reigned in! It's going to get worse too. People are going to experience the poverty my parents did i.e. they won't just be cold, and inadequately clothed, they will be genuinely half-starved as well. Children are going to suffer terribly, even die and that is surely not OK. My mother once said to me "When you've experienced that kind of poverty, you never forget it!". My parents were terrified of not having enough 'til the day they died! I don't want my DS nor GC experiencing the level of suffering my parents experienced, that damaged them psychologically for life!

@jackieh1987
Yes, funny how we get shouts of "oh but Labour....Corbyn the terrorist sympathiser/Abbott can't add up" but when Sunaks wife's company funds Putin and her family support Modi who also backs Russia and refuses to criticise Putins invasion.....
....we get a deathly silence from Tory voters and the tory supporting press.

@fuzzyduck1

Wait for the interest rates to start going up. Then we’ll be in the do-do

Yep. I bet people will be allowed to moan then, when it is not just the poor who are being squeezed.

I remember the late 80s and early 90s wave of reposessions and massive drops property values. It was not pretty.

[quote Alexandra2001]@jackieh1987
Yes, funny how we get shouts of "oh but Labour....Corbyn the terrorist sympathiser/Abbott can't add up" but when Sunaks wife's company funds Putin and her family support Modi who also backs Russia and refuses to criticise Putins invasion.....
....we get a deathly silence from Tory voters and the tory supporting press.[/quote]
Odd, isn't it? People could be dying in the streets, we would still be hearing cries of "but Corbyn".

Anyone who is not independently wealthy yet votes Tory is a mug.

You're absolutely right OP! Lots of terrible things happened in the past and should stay in the past.

@VladmirsPoutine

Thing is the people the tories need to keep themselves in power are the same people who will struggle the most with the cold.

Having said that, I do think there is something uniquely about this country that loves suffering. Something about the 'keep calm and carry on' spirit which harks back to the war. So I can't imagine things changing. I feel as though people would rather everything be miserable for everyone all the time.

The French would have wheeled out the guillotines by now.

This is not just down to the Tories. It's down to globalism and the so-called climate change green agenda. You need to read the UN's Agenda for Sustainable Development and also, read up on Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum, in paricular their article entitled "In the Future, You Will Own Nothing, Have No Privacy, And You'll Be Happy!". They have deleted it from their website because of the uproar it caused, but it's on the net forever now, so you will find it if you are persistent. So, Tories or Labour, or here in Ireland Finé Gael, Fianna Faíl or Sinn Fein, it won't matter. They're all career politicians now who are fully on board with the globalist agenda and do not regard themselves as public servants anymore. They make promises and break them as soon as they get into power. To paraphrase an old anarchist saying "Whoever you vote for, globalism wins!".

Anyone who is not independently wealthy yet votes Tory is a mug

Thats what gets me, they not only actively vote against their own best interests, they also vote to fuck over their children too.

I know people who vote tory (and for brexit) despite wanting to retire to europe, despite having children who work in the NHS and despite having to pay for private medical treatment because of the NHS waiting lists being so long.

They moan about council tax, lack of public services, terrible roads compared to "back in my day", poor sewage treatment plants... but would never vote differently because Labour would be worse.

@2Gen So labour wanting to help ease the energy crisis by having a windfall tax (something even Thatcher did) would make no difference?

Billions extra given to the very poorest wouldn't help....

How come EU consumers are not facing the same level of hike?

@flashbac

FFS

I also had no central heating in the house as a kid. There was a hole under the bathtub that cats would use to come in while you were freezing arse off on the loo. It was bloody grim. I don't wish it on anybody. People shouldn't have to be uncomfortable in their own bleeding homes for goodness sakes. It shouldn't be happening in this day and age. Stop defending it.

That's how I grew up. Chilblains all winter, low immune system so we caught everything, having to pulls bed away from walls so grey with damp mould we drew pictures in the slime. No money to spare. Nothing. It was horrible. It wasn't jolly-everyone-get-on-with it. My mum was miserable. We were ashamed to have people round and my parents worked their socks off and had no luxuries at all. It's indefensible to go back to that. Although there was always a rich poor divide and when we got older I babysat for families who lived completely different lives. Warm, with holidays. You never get over it.

@Taytocrisps

I grew up in a house without central heating. It was a fairly miserable existence. We had a gas fire in the kitchen which kept us warm in the morning before school. Mam would light the open fire around 3 o'clock and we'd all (eight of us) huddle together in the sitting room for the afternoon/night. The rest of the house was a no-go area in winter because of the cold. The coal fire was lovely and cheerful but not so lovely and cheerful when it was your turn to venture out into the cold to fill up the coal bucket from the coal bunker in the garden. Not to mention the work involved in clearing out the grate and setting the fire. Everyone had a hot water bottle and you'd have to remember to put it in your bed a bit before bedtime, so it would warm up the bed. You'd dress and undress at top speed so as to expose yourself to the frigid air for the absolute minimum. If it was a really cold night or morning, you'd endeavour to dress and undress under the covers. When I was around 20, my parents invested in central heating and I couldn't believe the difference it made. It really opened up the house. I could spend time in my bedroom without resorting to the sitting room for heat.

I can afford to heat my home (for now, at any rate) but I feel very sorry for those who can't and are having to make really difficult choices. You'd have to be very mean-spirited to tell people who are really stressed and worried and perhaps feeling a failure as a parent, that they'll just have to suck it up, because you had no central heating as a child and it didn't do you any harm .

I have just remebered I used to get dressed under the covers in Winter too as a child! It was horrible, wasn't it? As I've said before, my own aprents grew up half-starved in the 20s and 30s in Ireland and they were constantly telling me how lucky I was, and how " Sure they don't know how well off they are today" in the 60s and 70s. Compared to their childhoods, mine was a fair bit better but I would like to think life could just keep on getting better for us ordinary folk, yet now we're going backwards! I don't want any children my DS may have to suffer like my parents did as children, but it is a real possibility the rate our quality of life is deteriorating!

@Alexandra2001

Anyone who is not independently wealthy yet votes Tory is a mug

Thats what gets me, they not only actively vote against their own best interests, they also vote to fuck over their children too.

I know people who vote tory (and for brexit) despite wanting to retire to europe, despite having children who work in the NHS and despite having to pay for private medical treatment because of the NHS waiting lists being so long.

They moan about council tax, lack of public services, terrible roads compared to "back in my day", poor sewage treatment plants... but would never vote differently because Labour would be worse.

Tell me about it!! They are turkey’s voting for Christmas.

I'm wondering though that Rishi Sunak will have to get back to the drawing board sooner or later because the tories need the so called 'squeezed middle' to keep them in power. When the tories make changes that affect the poorest in society so those reliant on food banks and to varying extents universal credit they can pretty much carry on unhindered. This time it's different because a base of their demographic are beginning to feel the pinch too.

@Moonface123

Its called adapting, that is how the human race has survived this long but for some reason as Covid proved people dont want to adapt anymore, ni its so much easier bitching, moaning and bringing everyone down who dare so much as throw another perspective on it, than finding a solution.

Funny that it's the coldest, hungriest and most vulnerable who have to adapt. Never banks or multi billion £ companies or the government or their friends.

As a society we have developed extravagant tastes in levels of cleanliness and purchasing in a way that's destructive to the planet and unsustainable.
Perhaps we should drag the United Kingdom a few hundred miles south to warmer climes.

We waste energy and water and commodities constantly. We appear to be a rich country but gave massive debt both personally and as a country. We measure poverty as a relative measure so as we've 'got richer' the overtly limit also rises.

Every child has shoes and clothes or their parents are beyond capable of caring for them. We extend the generosity of our country to many people who come here for a better life.
We have to remember that it is a better life here but cold and wet and about to get more expensive than of recent years.

Where do we get our energy from? Our food? We are not self sufficient. We should have been working for this for the last forty years. We're in a crap position because of generations of politicians being short sighted and not looking after our interests as a country.

Do we have an economy here that makes anything? We're short of workers because menial jobs are paid minimum wage. Antisocial hours are also minimum wage. No one wants to work crap temporary jobs for rubbish wages and then we import more people to do these jobs. Would care home workers been offered more money if the govt didn't allow overseas workers to be imported (and had to pay them more to meet the level set by govt)
On the bright side the govt has recently said they won't lend university money to people without GCSE maths and English. Which worryingly means they have been.
50% of kids going to university was a monstrous idea.

UK is screwed up for so much more than the cost of energy.

I remember no central heating Ice on windows but people had chimneys, so fires, coal bunkers, my granny had some kind of water heater in the bathroom that boiled water for the bath. I remember paraffin heaters,. My other granny had a range which you used for heating and cooking

Many homes have no chimneys no ranges, boilers, no way to keep warm. Yes most of us survived but many died every winter

How come EU consumers are not facing the same level of hike?

They faced higher rises last year/last quarter?

"The price of gas has risen by 750 percent and electricity prices have doubled," says Mads Ulrik Pedersen with Danish greenhouse company Alfred Pedersen & Son. He explains how this means that winter production of Danish tomatoes has been reduced by 40%. "We have had to lay off 30 of our skilled employees.

www.hortidaily.com/article/9380339/denmark-40-fewer-tomatoes-because-of-the-high-gas-prices/

Electric bills in Italy set for record 55 percent rise from January.

A record hike in the cost of household bills is due to come into effect from Saturday, at an increase of 55 percent for electricity and 41.8 percent for gas.

The increases for the first quarter of 2022 decided by the Regulatory Authority for Energy Networks and Environment (Arera) mark a new high after a series of increases over the past year.

In July, electricity bills rose by 9.9 percent and 15.3 percent for gas, while in October figures increased by 29.8 percent for electricity and 14.4 percent for gas.

www.thelocal.it/20211231/italys-energy-bills-set-for-record-rise-from-january/

@RancidOldHag

Yes, everyone should be securely housed and warm enough.

This phrase isn't usually used to mean that they shouldn't be.

It's used to remind people that we haven't got it uniquely tough, and that it was just as bad (fuel crisis, inflation) in the 1970s

We coped then. We'll cope now.

And perhaps between times we will learn to make the changes when the country does have money to make a difference

Why should we have to cope though? So some European energy companies can get richer? It's not right.

Why should we have to cope though?

Because it's happening.

Better to cope than to wish for a unicorn.

And then, if you look at my whole earlier post - "And perhaps between times we will learn to make the changes when the country does have money to make a difference"

Because if this was to be headed off, it should have been worked on a decade or more ago. Investing in a range of technologies that reduce dependence on fossil fuels is good for the environment and good for fuel security. But it costs.