Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Can I be FORCED to work a notice?

299 replies

jobproblems672 · 01/04/2022 11:33

Hi,

I posted recently about handing in my notice in a job I hate. I was recently signed off for burnout and back pain which is ongoing and all due to my job. I also have a really long commute and long story short I am struggling to continue at this job.

I handed in my notice in mid March thinking it was 2 months. I misread it and it said 2 months effective from either 30th December or 30th april. So that means I have to stay until 30th June.
I already told my new employer I can start in mid May. It took my boss a week after I handed in my notice to tell me that I actually need to stay until July. Since then I’ve been in limbo about a start date as nothing was confirmed.

So I literally just sent a huge email stating that I’m really sorry, that I’m happy to serve a 2 months notice but I physically cannot work until July due to my mental and physical well-being.
She’s disregarded it and sent a short email saying sorry, your end date is 1st July and I can’t make this any earlier.

I can’t even sign off sick for the duration as I’d start my new job in May and that’d be illegal.

Am I wrong in thinking you don’t have to work a notice period? I literally explained that I can’t and won’t, and she didn’t take it for an answer.

Thanks

OP posts:
MayMorris · 01/04/2022 13:35

@LittleOwl153

Go back to your doctor. See if they will sign you off until the end of June. Explain the situation in that you have resigned your job but that they are insisting you work your notice which you don't feel medically able to do. If you can get your GP sign off they might be prepared to negotiate based on the fact that they won't have your time anyway but will still be paying you I assume.
This. Although most GPs will just sign off 2 weeks at a time for stress/anxiety issues . Get a sick note (fitness note actually) and ensure that GP puts down “work related stress” or anxiety or whatever - work related is key term. Explain clearly that it is your job that is making you sick. You have done the right thing in taking action to exit a job you are unsuited for. If they make you stay nothing will change and you will be continued to be signed off for 2 week periods until the end of your notice period as nothing will change If you explain that, maybe they’ll see sense that they are better to cut their losses and let you go earlier than continue to pay you when you aren’t there. If they still refuse to see sense and let you go , you could try raising a grievance to say that you are being forced to work unreasonable notice given your condition and that it is caused by the work they’re forcing you to continue. They have a duty of care not to make you iller than you need be, by forcing you to work when you have provided a solution for them and you, is compounding your condition and they are failing 8n their duty of care. Unless they are willing to make changes or adaptions to what you do for next few months to eliminate or at least reduce the issues it is giving you
DameHelena · 01/04/2022 13:36

@jobproblems672

I can’t afford to be signed off sick as I’m only eligible for statutory sick pay which is awful
But you don't sound as if you can realistically work your notice at this place either. I didn't see your last thread, but if they know your job is causing you harm and yet are not making reasonable adjustments, you may have a case for constructive dismissal. I'd talk to an employment lawyer. To keep costs down, you can write letters and emails etc to your employers and the lawyer can check them and advise. I did this and my lawyer still effectively rewrote all my communications. And if you do get a settlement agreement (which is what I think I'd be going for), your current employers will have to pay the lawyer anyway.
DogInATent · 01/04/2022 13:36

@jobproblems672

I made a new thread because there’s been an update? As in the email I sent and received this morning?
Then add to the original thread. You're getting a lot of bad comments because quite a bit of information in the original thread isn't duplicated here.

As per the other thread.

If you can't take up the new job whilst employed by your current employer.

You can't not work notice without breaching contract.

Because of what you do your current employer would have a very good case for taking you to court for the costs of agency cover.

The back problems/stress could be a way out, but how good a poker player are you at calling their bluff on a grievance?

pollymere · 01/04/2022 13:38

Get hold of your schools employment policy. Most actually say that you only have to give a month's or week's notice on either side if you've been there less than a year. It's often buried very deep in the policy as they want you to give them a term's notice when they can give you far less. If you are on sick leave and cannot return to a specific role, I believe you can ask to resign without notice being required, and the school must consider your request properly. I think saying you can either go on sick leave for your notice period or resign with immediate effect (or the two months you're willing to offer), they may also become more flexible.

SpringIntoChaos · 01/04/2022 13:39

@DifficultBloodyWoman

I have never seen a clause like that before.

I doubt that can be enforced. Call CAB and ACAS.

Welcome to the world of education! This is standard...and much worse for teachers!! I once missed the notice deadline by ONE DAY (due to the date of interview/job offer). I handed my notice in on 1st June (deadline day was 31st May) and asked if I could finish on 31st August (standard end date for a 31st May resignation).

My head said no, as I'd missed the cut off point by one day...and made me work through until 31st December...which 'contractually' I was obliged to do!! 7 months of hell...awful behaviour and why I left such a toxic school.

Original poster
jobproblems672 · 01/04/2022 13:41

But I’m not a teacher!!… I’m not in charge of a whole class or anything like that

OP posts:
ChicCroissant · 01/04/2022 13:44

@Yellownightmare

So it's really the case that employers can sack you for any reason within the first two years, but you have to work your notice period? This seems totally unfair and way too weighted in favour of employers.
The OP's employers are contracted to provide a service to the schools. They need to know who they'll have working for them to plan to provide that service. It's the same for any employer - they can't provide a service without staff.
HappyAsLarry2022 · 01/04/2022 13:45

Just work your two months notice period and leave. I would only worry about a bad reference with. Regards to you not working your notice period but as you are not going back to an educational environment, failure to work such a long notice period should never be an issue for you again.
As others have said, there is very little they can do. Are they really going to pursue you in the courts, highly unlikely

donquixotedelamancha · 01/04/2022 13:45

I can’t afford to be signed off sick as I’m only eligible for statutory sick pay which is awful

Then do everything else on the list I suggested. Start with the OH referral.

Also, think about what precise problems are causing you such stress, then a written request for Reasonable Adjustments to make your life easier and for a work related stress risk assessment.

If you are struggling to frame what you want, jot down some thoughts and post in employment issues for help with it. Don't post on AIBU.

Consider taking your last week or two sick or annual leave, you need some time to recover.

But most of all- you are just going to leave for the new job, it's nearly over.

OnceAgainWithFeeling · 01/04/2022 13:46

@lalaloopyhead

They can't force you to work your notice and it is unlikely that they will persue breach of contract, but they obviously don't have to pay you for the notice period.

I believe you can be signed off work for one job, but be fit for work for another so that should affect your new start date.

Wow. Highly unlikely that the OP’s current employer’s contract/sickness policy would allow her to take a new job whilst off sick from them!
DrWhoNowww · 01/04/2022 13:48

@jobproblems672

I’m not employed by a school…. I’m not a teacher. I work for a private healthcare company and the schools pay us to come in.
So, is the notice clause required by the school or by your actual employer?

It really wouldn’t be considered reasonable to expect you to have a notice period of almost the same length of your employment with them, especially as you aren’t critical staff.

Re legal advice have a look here:

www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals/find-legal-advice-clinic-near-you

It’s student led advice but it will have been checked by a qualified legal person before it’s discussed with you.

ButterfliesAndPancakes · 01/04/2022 13:48

You can be put on gardening leave but that’s at employers discretion. I was put on gardening leave at my last job and my boss told me I was free to start my new role. At to whether that was strictly correct I’m not actually sure but I just went with it as she clearly didn’t know or care. Both jobs were within the NHS. You could ask about that? Or ask about unpaid leave from this job and see if you could be allowed to start the new job? Or get HR involved?

DogInATent · 01/04/2022 13:51

As others have said, there is very little they can do. Are they really going to pursue you in the courts, highly unlikely

Easy to say, it's not your risk. It's very low risk/low cost to the employer to take the (former) employee through the small claims process.

If the employer withholds their P45 until the end of the full period, it's going to be awkward to explain to the new employer. The OP has a new offer of employment and hasn't told their new employer that they made a mistake and falsely assumed beneficial treatment (the OP was fully aware of the notice clause but assumed it wouldn't be applied to them before they asked for a dispensation).

donquixotedelamancha · 01/04/2022 13:54

The OP's employers are contracted to provide a service to the schools. They need to know who they'll have working for them to plan to provide that service. It's the same for any employer - they can't provide a service without staff.

  1. Two months is time to recruit.
  2. The notice is out of line with industry norms and very disproportionate to notice the employee gets, so likely not enforceable.
  3. Employer treats OP poorly.

More broadly:

Countries that enforce decent treatment of employees tend to have higher productivity than the UK. Employment is a very unbalanced market (in terms of power and market information) and a rebalancing might benefit the while economy in the long run.

I'm always surprised how many people are fine with the current state of UK employment rights- it feels like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Original poster
jobproblems672 · 01/04/2022 13:54

The notice period is by my actual employer

OP posts:
Fleur405 · 01/04/2022 13:57

The question is if you just refuse to go in, what are they going to do about it? In theory they could sue you for breach of contract - but it’s pretty unlikely to happen unless someone is in a business critical role. Someone said they’d might claim the cost of an agency worker. But even if they incur that cost, they are no longer paying you so the damages would be the difference. Bear in mind if you did work you notice you’d probably be signed off anyway based on what you said about your health and then it starts to be a lot of hassle for them to sue you over what is not a particularly large loss.

EmmaH2022 · 01/04/2022 13:57

@jobproblems672

The notice period is by my actual employer
I would be surprised if it's enforceable

I have left two jobs and told them I'm not working notice. Do you think they'd get a lawyer on to it?

TheKeatingFive · 01/04/2022 13:58

It's very low risk/low cost to the employer to take the (former) employee through the small claims process.

Given that it almost never happens in these kinds of cases, that's clearly hokum.

EmmaH2022 · 01/04/2022 13:59

Sorry, I should be clearer
The Jan or April thing doesn't sound enforceable.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 01/04/2022 14:00

@donquixotedelamancha

The OP's employers are contracted to provide a service to the schools. They need to know who they'll have working for them to plan to provide that service. It's the same for any employer - they can't provide a service without staff.
  1. Two months is time to recruit.
  2. The notice is out of line with industry norms and very disproportionate to notice the employee gets, so likely not enforceable.
  3. Employer treats OP poorly.

More broadly:

Countries that enforce decent treatment of employees tend to have higher productivity than the UK. Employment is a very unbalanced market (in terms of power and market information) and a rebalancing might benefit the while economy in the long run.

I'm always surprised how many people are fine with the current state of UK employment rights- it feels like turkeys voting for Christmas.

It's not out of line with industry norms. It's completely typical for a school, which is where the OP works.
TheKeatingFive · 01/04/2022 14:01

It's not out of line with industry norms. It's completely typical for a school, which is where the OP works.

Perhaps for a teacher role. Which she doesn't do.

Comefromaway · 01/04/2022 14:04

@TheKeatingFive

The only thing that happened was I had to write off my reference and I cannot tell you how hard that made life.

I wasn't in the position at all, I just used an older reference. I've never seen anything specified that the ref has to be your last job. Especially given the op has been there such a short time.

In any educational setting the Safer Recruitment process means that a complete work history must be given and the last place worked for MUST be a reference.
BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 01/04/2022 14:05

I would reply by email that the damage to your health from this job is such that you definitely won't be able to work the full notice period. In fact, you're not even sure that you will be able to continue for another two months but you are prepared to try for the sake of your current employer. You reiterate that your last day at your current job will be X date, or possibly earlier depending on circumstances.

TheKeatingFive · 01/04/2022 14:05

In any educational setting the Safer Recruitment process means that a complete work history must be given and the last place worked for MUST be a reference.

The OP's new job isn't in an educational setting.

Original poster
jobproblems672 · 01/04/2022 14:05

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow I’ll state again, I am not employed by a school

OP posts: