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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Is this an example of a flexible boss

54 replies

Ceci03 · 31/03/2022 09:21

So, I'm having problems with my manager. I won't bore you with all the details, I actually posted about it last week or the week before. Basically I was asking to leave at 4pm on days when the office was already covered until 5pm, as I had been coming in early to avail of free parking. I didn't think it was an unreasonable request, I'm not asking for anyone else's hours to be changed, and I will happily stay til 5pm if I'm the only person left that day - a lot go at 4pm.
So, at a meeting yesterday to discuss, I was asked if I thought manager was flexible in general, and I said no. I have so many examples I wont bore you with them. They asked my manager to give an example of a time she was flexible and she talked about once about 2.5 years ago, she allowed me to take a half day of leave to take delivery of some furniture. Just for background I moved country to start this job so at the beginning I did need to ask for that half day for the removal people to deliver my stuff. It was unavoidable, as they were supposed to come the week before, - before I started the job - but it was a mix up and they didnt come.

She had one other example when about 2 years ago I had asked to take annual leave to go to an appointment to get my NI number. You don't get to choose your appointment they just send you a time I gave boss notice, and took the half day out of my leave She said that showed she was flexible.
To me these are just 'normal' things?
One other thing she said was that when I was off with covid she covered my hours on campus. Surely that is out of my control and just her job? Managers have to cover staff absences if there's nobody else? I couldnt help being off, so I don't think it shows her flexibility.

Just interested what you all think.

OP posts:

Original poster

Ceci03 · 31/03/2022 11:53

Think I'm going to just withdraw the request. She is saying today that she needs to wait until the director comes back from leave, as the director will need to consider how this arrangement of me leaving at 4 will affect other teams. I just cant any more..... I give up.

OP posts:

Constantlypanicking12 · 31/03/2022 11:53

She sounds horrible and I’d look for another job too. I work know HE but on the academic side and there is no reason for presenteeism. Nobody is going to die if there aren’t lots of people in the office at the end of the day. Also, it’s hardly like it’s her own business - she’s doing this to seem self-important and it’s really unfair on her staff. I’d get out of there and make it very clear in your exit interview why you have left. If your uni is in Athena Swan you could also raise her inflexible attitude as a red flag for female employees who are more likely to need flexibility. Also, are you in the union? If so, speak to your branch rep because they might be able to help.

Original poster

Ceci03 · 31/03/2022 12:07

Thanks @Constantlypanicking12 yes I'm in the union I joined shortly after I started in this job as I could see there could be problems ahead with her. She just seems to get away with it. Another colleague left for the same reason and made a formal complaint but nothing happened/changed. Another colleague left and went to a different team. Same reason. She has a lot of power as a manager, so I think most people just put their heads down and try to ignore her as much as possible. and just hope that they don't need any flexibility. Another colleague under her is off having treatment for breast cancer and the way the manager handed that was just appalling.

OP posts:

Original poster

Ceci03 · 31/03/2022 12:08

*handled
She has been on the phone to me in tears on a few occasions

OP posts:

AgentCarterRocks · 31/03/2022 12:31

Flexible might include "my team member who works hybrid has switched her office day so she can go swimming straight after work one day a week" or "my team member's teenage son forgot his key this morning so Dad's leaving the office early to let the child in the house and will work from home for the remaining hours"

Granting annual leave to cover a booked appointment isn't exactly in the same league.

YellowMonday · 31/03/2022 13:28

I think it's pretty pathetic to be honest.

My work supports flexibility, particularly on setting your work hours to align with what times work best for you. I am a early bird, so I work usually 7.30am to 4pm while a colleague is a night owl and works 11am to 7pm.

Like a lot of people, we often work over our 40 hours, so not need to take leave for medical appointments, etc.

Coming out of covid, we're moving to a hybrid approach of 3/2 for WFH/in the office.

BambinaJAS · 31/03/2022 13:41

@Ceci03

Yeah it's HE. She is the most preseteeism manager I've ever had in 20+ years. I thought that wfh and covid would have softened her views, but no, she is worse than ever.

On my first day, one of the very first things she said to me was "if you're 5 minutes late in the morning you can take it out of your lunch time break". We get half an hour for lunch. Red flags went up even on day 1. I could write so many more. She notes down how long you take to go to the toilet or to the kitchen. and how long your lunch break is. Unfortunately I have been moved into the office with her so she is beside me now. I've never felt so judged and watched. with us moving to 3 days next week I'm dreading it so much. I've only been on the rota with her a few times so far but they have been horrible days. I'll be on with her a lot more now...

I would be looking for a new job. She will take what you have done extremely personally, and will become even more of a micro-manager.

Managers like this are awful. They treat people like children.

Your mental health will absolutely suffer with a manager like that. And you can forget about any kind of career development with these types.

Worth repeating:

Run from this manager as fast as you can.

BambinaJAS · 31/03/2022 13:45

@Ceci03

I would start typing my letter of resignation.

That is pathetic behavior from her.

People like her should never, ever be managers. They just don't have the emotional IQ necessary for the job. They just cause misery for anybody that has any issues at the office.

cookiemonster2468 · 31/03/2022 13:53

She sounds awful. I doubt I would be staying there long if I were you, I'd be looking for another job.

Katkincake · 31/03/2022 13:53

Jeez, if that’s her definition of being flexible then I’m a complete pushover as a manager. The fact that she can’t make the decision without speaking to her director suggests she’s completely out of her depth and not someone who makes a great leader by micro managing every small thing. I’d hate to be her manager too, such small things are never be raised by my managers.

I’d be actively looking for other jobs if I had to work for her, plus making sure I give feedback on her performance to her mgr (whether it’s welcomed or not)

user1471457751 · 31/03/2022 14:51

Wasn't part of the problem the lack of resilience if you started finishing at 4?

If I remember rightly it was a team of 6, 3 finishing at 4 and 3 finishing at 5. One of the 5pm shift is on long term sick so that leaves just 2 of you. So if your boss allowed your request then they would only have 1 member of staff finishing at 5 and 4 finishing at 4.

Original poster

Ceci03 · 31/03/2022 16:03

@user1471457751

Wasn't part of the problem the lack of resilience if you started finishing at 4?

Good remembering @user1471457751 but not quite

Team of 6 -
3 work 8-4
3 work 9-5

One is on long term sick and was 9-5, but her replacement does 8-4

So I asked could I do 8-4 but only on the days when one of the other 9-5 people is there. On days when I'm on with an 8-4 person I said I would happily cover until 5pm. And just for a few months.

She has now made up another rule - that there must be 2 people in the office from 4pm -5pm. But that doesnt apply when SHE has to leave at 4pm. Like tomorrow, I am on with her (I'm so dreading it, I'm actually feeling sick about it) - so obviously I stay from 4pm -5pm on my own and that's ok. But she wants there to be 2 people there from 4pm -5pm from now on (except when she has to go at 4, does that make sense)

And another rule came up yesterday, that 1 of the people who does 9-5 needs "handholding" as she is new. So cannot be left alone. Except she has been left alone since she started about 9 months ago - she takes messages if she doesnt know. In all that time, there has NEVER EVER been something for me. I work with people in China and Thailand and Hong Kong who are well finished their day by 4pm. So actuallly it makes sense for me to do 8-4 more than any of the others, I could make that point if I wanted to. Or could be bothered to.

OP posts:

Tumbleweed101 · 31/03/2022 16:12

An example between me and my boss would be that she has altered my finish times on some days so I can pick my daughter up after her GCSE revision classes. This is a temporary change so shows she is flexible to changing needs of staff.

girlmom21 · 31/03/2022 16:18

We can't say whether she's flexible or not without knowing when she has or hasn't approved or declined your requests.

She can't give examples of when she's been flexible if you've never needed flexibility aside from those examples.

She's probably right about 2 people needing to be in the office from a health and safety perspective

Original poster

Ceci03 · 31/03/2022 22:51

@girlmom21

We can't say whether she's flexible or not without knowing when she has or hasn't approved or declined your requests.

She can't give examples of when she's been flexible if you've never needed flexibility aside from those examples.

She's probably right about 2 people needing to be in the office from a health and safety perspective

So for the past 2 years there has only been one person in the office from 4pm to 5pm, and that will continue next week. Except when it is me who wants to leave a 4pm. Then 2 people will be required.

For example tomorrow I will be on my own from 4-5 after she leaves. But on Monday I will be on with a different person who stays until 5pm, but I am not allowed to leave. As 2 people have to be there. On Tuesday I am on with her again. So will be alone from 4-5pm.

OP posts:

LightSpeeds · 31/03/2022 22:57

No, I don't think she's flexible at all - the fact that she's citing examples from 2+ years ago shows that!

Our managers show 'flexibility' every single week to take into account the team's problems, appointments, illnesses, family issues...

It sounds like maybe she has something against you?

HollaHolla · 01/04/2022 02:19

Oh my god. This sounds so like my manager in HE - but we don't have that rota system, or else I'd have thought you also had my ShitBoss.
Mine refused to give me flexible working during the early stage of the pandemic for caring reasons (I was asking for one 1/2 day per fortnight - but would work up the hours at other times), because the caring responsibilities weren't a parent or child. This is my aunt, who is disabled, and my Mum would usually look after her, but Mum was shielding; so my siblings and I took it on. So, instead, I went every weekend, as my brother & sister managed through the week. Colleagues with children were allowed to 'do what you can, when you can', when they were homeschooling - and I completely understand that wasn't easy!

Then, I went off with stress/depression/burnout, due to the unreasonable workload I kept telling her about. At least part of that was cover for a colleague who couldn't undertake her full workload, because she was homeschooling. She refused to have a 1:1 with me for 11 months, before I went off sick. I was off for 3 months, and when I came back, she tried to take me to capability, for stuff that wasn't done when I was on sick leave!! She also kept harassing me at home, when I was off sick, asking 'have you done X or Y (work) yet?' I had to get my Union Rep to formally contact her, to tell her to stop. The problem is that her husband is the Head of HR, and she seems to be untouchable.

I like my job, but HATE my boss. She has ruined it for me, and won't change. I'm very actively trying to find something else. I'd suggest you consider doing the same.

Original poster

Ceci03 · 01/04/2022 09:46

@HollaHolla gosh your boss sounds like a nightmare. I mean I don't understand - if she had given you some leeway at the beginning you may not have burnt out and had to go on sick leave. I don't understand managers who don't value their staff. I mean if they don't have their staff they cant do their job. Their staff are their biggest asset?

i'm in the office today with the boss woman just me and her. it's excrutiating. not a good working atmosphere for sure.

OP posts:

TooManyPJs · 01/04/2022 09:52

So she let you take annual leave and arranged cover for when you were sick!?! That's not flexibility. You are entitled to annual leave and sometimes people are sick!

And I don't see it as relevant how many times she has been flexible in the past anyway. Is it a formal flexible working request. My understanding is that the only considerations are whether there are business reasons why the request can't be accommodated not flexibilities granted in the past (unless via a formal flexible working request in which case there's a time limit before you can request another one).

All sounds bloody annoying and ridiculous.

TooManyPJs · 01/04/2022 10:03

Read all your posts now. She sounds like an utter nightmare to work for. The leave at 4 request issue is just the tip of the iceberg.

I'll be looking for new employment. She's unlikely to change. Hopefully you get an exit meeting with someone neutral and you can say you are leaving because of micromanagement and inflexibility.

Lemonlemon88 · 01/04/2022 10:08

To me, outside of a formal flexible working arrangement, it is swings and roundabouts. Sometimes people need to go to appointments. Sometimes they have to stay late. If i wasn't allowed to go to an appointment, i wouldn't do any out of hours work.

Marmite27 · 01/04/2022 10:14

The type of flexibility I’ve had from my boss is being able to switch my shorter day to facilitate an appointment.

Be able to attend school things in my working hours and make the time back.

Take 1 parental day, have two days at home and do one days work spread over the two days (thanks chicken pox).

Tell me not to worry, do what I need to do when a parent died, and a child was in hospital (two years apart).

Your bosses examples are just normal work stuff.

Marmite27 · 01/04/2022 10:19

Oh and the other week DH forgot something critical so I took 15 minutes in the middle of my working day to meet him in a carpark and hand it over. That was arranged as it happened, and was told I didn’t need to make the time back.

Constantlypanicking12 · 01/04/2022 10:28

Sympathy OP. Hope you manage to get away from her. I saw you have foreign clients which made me think of the head of our Global Partnerships team who is also a total witch 😂. It wouldn’t surprise me if she pulls that shit on her staff too.

comealongponds · 01/04/2022 10:40

Those two examples are not examples of flexibility. However that doesn’t mean she needs to allow you to leave at 4pm to demonstrate flexibility

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