Will my little boy go to a mainstream school

[GrowingUpBesideYou]

My DS is 3y2m old, speech and language delayed and possibly has ASD. He can follow some basic one step commands and in the past few months has gone from completely non verbal, to being able to say about 50 words (mostly labelling) and has recently started to string a couple of words together, for ex, "drive car", "climb tree". He has no behavioural issues apart from some frustration when he is unable to communicate his needs. Can feed himself and put his own wellies on. Not yet toilet trained. Very happy in his mainstream nursery but ignores all the other children and likes to do his own thing and play with the toys alone. Doesn't join in with story time and group activities yet but will sit at the lunch table. He can count to 10 and recite some of the alphabet. Sleeps well and is a happy and great boy. I know he is still so young at 3y2m, but I'm already wondering about school and if he will go to mainstream or need a special school. Any experience or advice appreciated.

I have a ds with a neurological condition and asd.

He's been through Ms the whole way through (ehcp since secondary) and leaves college this year.

It's been a rollercoaster of good and bad bits.

Special education is best for some students and not for others. It's more than just academic level but as others have mentioned a peer group. The general rules is moderate learning difficulties is 2-4 years behind and those pupils would attend special school and over 4 years is severe learning difficulties and profound and multiple learning difficulties.

From what you write your ds doesn't sound more than 2 years delayed and therefore he may find mainstream works for him.

I work in special education as well (specialist advisory role) and I e seen pupils go from MS where they are managing the work (but have a totally separate curriculum and 1:1) to special school where they have a peer group who are all working at the same level and don't require 1:1.

Some parents prefer MS because they don't like the idea of their child being in special school. But I always encourage them to look further than the title and what their child will actually gain from each setting.

But tbh nobody on here can tell you what is best option for your children and there seems to be some misapprehensions,about special school,s even on this thread
When my son was in nursery it was the educational psychologist,who advised special school would be his best option ,but of course autism is a huge spectrum,and children with additional learning disabilities often need more support then mainstream can offer but it's an individual choice.

He sounds very like my dd was developmental wise. She developed language between 3.5&4 and was fluent by 4.5. She was diagnosed with asd at 2. She went to mainstream school at 5 (she actually missed reception due to living elsewhere where school starts later so I home schooled her for reception and she attended her special needs nursery). She toilet trained at 4.5

It's also worth bearing in mind that in order to make the move from mainstream to specialist (if spaces are available), there would have to be a bank of evidence that demonstrates a history of mainstream schools being unable to meet your child's needs. Basically, this means your child might have to suffer through years of not having all of his/her needs met in order to "prove" they "qualify" for an EHCP
and/or specialist place. It's an awful system and terrible for the child in that situation but it's the harsh reality.

Please try not to worry too much, he sounds like he's on a very typical trajectory for what we used to call Asperger's, who generally are mainstream educated very successfully (remember many schools for special needs are not suitable for academically able especially once at secondary level, we investigated but there were none in our county)

Iamnotthe1
Go to appeal on the ECHP and request an independent SEN school. The local authority has a legal responsibility to pay the fees if they can’t find suitable provision in one of their schools.

It can depend upon what sort of special school is available where you live. Here they are for severe or profound learning difficulties and children with moderate learning difficulties would attend mainstream school. We don't have any resource bases. ASD provision is all independent provision and either parents fight for it at tribunal or the LA agrees when no other school will take the child ( so usually a history of severe behavioural difficulties in LA schools).

@Iamnotthe1

It's also worth bearing in mind that in order to make the move from mainstream to specialist (if spaces are available), there would have to be a bank of evidence that demonstrates a history of mainstream schools being unable to meet your child's needs. Basically, this means your child might have to suffer through years of not having all of his/her needs met in order to "prove" they "qualify" for an EHCP and/or specialist place. It's an awful system and terrible for the child in that situation but it's the harsh reality.

100% agree with this. Mainstream schools are not generally happy places for autistic kids. Go visit some specialist provisions.

@gogohm

He sounds very like my dd was developmental wise. She developed language between 3.5&4 and was fluent by 4.5. She was diagnosed with asd at 2. She went to mainstream school at 5 (she actually missed reception due to living elsewhere where school starts later so I home schooled her for reception and she attended her special needs nursery). She toilet trained at 4.5

Yes but he also sounds like my son who has hundreds and thousands of single words, and is able to request things he wants, but still at seven can't answer the question 'What's your name?'

So would recommend OP look at all options and consider where her child would be happiest.

He sounds very similar to my DD2. She is off to mainstream in Sept 2023 as far as i'm aware. He still has his pre school year to get ready for school. If he has had a huge jump in language, your can probably assume it will improve, and with that, so will frustration behaviour.

SEN schools are massively oversubscribed, and from what you describe of your son, he will unlikely meet the criteria.

@Makeitsoso

Iamnotthe1 Go to appeal on the ECHP and request an independent SEN school. The local authority has a legal responsibility to pay the fees if they can’t find suitable provision in one of their schools.

I can only speak from my experience but I've found with my LA that when parents request fees to be paid, they refuse and expect mainstream schools to make what that child needs just happen. Some of our parents have ended up just paying for it themselves because that's what their child needed. Is there any documentation about the legal duty that you could link me to as that would be really helpful?

My son did mainstream primary with an EHCP which gave full time 1:1. He has Down syndrome, wasn’t toilet trained, language delayed, etc. He did well in primary and most of the teachers were great and willing to learn. We switched to a special school for secondary which also went well.

@Iamnotthe1, the duty is to pay fees when the private school is named in the EHCP as the only school the child can attend - i.e. the local authority has accepted that no other school, whether private or maintained, can meet the child's needs. I suspect that isn't the situation you're talking about.

Iamnotthe1 If a school is named in section I then the LA are responsible for paying the fees and SEN Support. SENCOP 9.131 and s.42 of the CAFA 2014 are relevant. If you have parents where the LA isn’t providing the provision specified and quantified in F or securing the placement named in I then the parents should complain to the LA and threaten Judicial Review.

Hey OP!
I could have written that about my DS. Almost exactly the same age as yours too. Makaton seems to really be helping him. Progress is slow though and I'm so stressed about making good choices to support him. I've found the Hanen books helpful and Laura Minze (often recommended on here), also as a pp said posts on here by Lingle. I think my DS might be a gestalt language processor (learns in chunks rather than units of speech) but I'm not sure how much that is recognised by UK SLTs? Do DM if you want to chat more or maybe we could start a thread in the SEN boards for parents in a similar boat.

Thanks everyone!

@EthelTheAardvark
I suspect that isn't the situation you're talking about.
Ah. It was a similiar situation but not an exact match. The LA were refusing to accept that mainstream couldn't meet the needs despite everyone else involved being in agreement that they couldn't.

@Imitatingdory
If a school is named in section I then the LA are responsible for paying the fees and SEN Support. SENCOP 9.131 and s.42 of the CAFA 2014 are relevant. If you have parents where the LA isn’t providing the provision specified and quantified in F or securing the placement named in I then the parents should complain to the LA and threaten Judicial Review.
Thank you - that's useful. The specific child I'm thinking about has been identified as likely needing special provision in the short to mid future but the team at the LA have stated there are no places at all in any kind of enhanced provision so he must remain in mainstream no matter what. I guess the trick remains getting them to accept the school as being named.

Hi OP. I'm a TA, so work with children like your son every day. Special schools where I live (Scotland) have closed everywhere, and supported mainstream is increasingly the norm. You need a very compelling reason for a space at special school.
If given the choice, I would go for special school. The vast majority cope very well at nursery, as the environment is totally different. Then they join school, anxiety kicks in, and their behaviour declines. All I'm saying is that your son may not stay the same as he is now.
And it is sad to say, but the gap between he and his peers is likely to widen as they get older. I see it all the time.
I care very much for 'my' children and do my very best for them. But I do sometimes think that if some parents were a fly on the wall, they'd have made different choices.
Good luck.

Going to m s won't make him "mainstream" or change his diagnosis
Going to special school won't make him "worse"
There are good and not so provision
For some kids special school will be by far the best option and nurture and teach
some mainstream have unit and great provision
Be open to visit all provisions

My daughter is almost similar. They are similar age as well. However she has been potty trained since 2.5 years even though she couldn’t speak then, she just takes herself to the toilet and now she says she needs one when we’re out.
At 3, she had like 50 words and just a couple of months later, it’s increased to over 300 words with lots of 2 and 3 word phrases. We have to make an effort to teach her everything and it’s not come naturally to her.
Her nursery thinks she’s fine and they’ll assess her again in September. Good thing is that she’s not starting school till 2023 because of the time she was born so I feel there’s still a lot of time for a change.

Iamnotthe1 In that case the parents should be encouraged to appeal.

Not all independent special schools are wholly independent, the law around getting an independent special school named is different depending on whether the school is wholly independent or a section 41 independent.

Parents can ask for a wholly independent placement, but they need to prove none of the schools the LA propose can meet their DC’s needs or it is not unreasonable public expenditure. And they need an offer of a place from the school.

Section 41 independents are included in the placements parents have the right to request under s38(3) of the CAFA 2014 and the LA must name the parental preference in the EHCP unless they can prove:

• The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

(s39(4) CAFA 2014)

Full is not defined in law, and being full is not a reason on its own to refuse to name the setting, the LA need to prove the school is so full admitting the child is incompatible. Although that doesn’t stop the LA refusing and forcing the parents to appeal.

To complicate matters further, some LAs will come to an arrangement with parents whereby the parents pay the fees and the LA pay the SEN support. I know this happens with mainstream independents, and another MN’er says their LA will also do it for specialist independents.

@Embracelife

Going to m s won't make him "mainstream" or change his diagnosis Going to special school won't make him "worse" There are good and not so provision For some kids special school will be by far the best option and nurture and teach some mainstream have unit and great provision Be open to visit all provisions

This.

Your boy is your boy. From the sounds of it, my guess would be he could go to mainstream if they have a good SEN set up. But you might feel he could benefit from a SEN school.

@Imitatingdory
Really useful - thanks very much for taking the time to reply with all that.

Thank you - that's useful. The specific child I'm thinking about has been identified as likely needing special provision in the short to mid future but the team at the LA have stated there are no places at all in any kind of enhanced provision so he must remain in mainstream no matter what. I guess the trick remains getting them to accept the school as being named

In that case the LA is acting unlawfully. If they accept the child needs special provision, then they have a duty to arrange it. They also have a separate duty to ensure that there are adequate school places available to meet the needs (including SEN) of all children within their area. As @Imitatingdory says, that includes independent schools and also schools in neighbouring boroughs. It simply isn't good enough to say that a child must do without adequate education because we as an LA have failed in our duties.

In addition to appealing, it may be worth considering a threat of judicial review to push the LA into acting sooner rather than later, particularly if you can identify a school that is able to meet the child's needs and can offer a place.