A PhD is a huge waste of time- aibu

[Bluffysummers]

I’d quantify this and say in the humanities.

I did one, worked hard to complete it, stress, time and money. I was totally duped into it, lecturers telling me how good I was and blowing smoke up my arse and implying I’d get a job at the end of it… in my subject there were 3 jobs nationwide when I graduated none full time…and god knows how many candidates.

I left academia and guess what, no one cares if you have a PhD, in fact I think it’s more of a hinderance than an asset. I spent 10 years in education and all it did was delay my industry and career experience, so basically hinder me.

Aibu to say If you’re thinking of doing a humanities PhD don’t.

My opinion is that they are like apprenticeships for becoming a research academic.

My sister did a humanities PhD and post-doc. She now works in a large Russell Group uni in student services / admissions policy / academic services... last time we had a Zoom and we were talking about what my kids might want to study if they go to Uni, she leant forward and said very seriously "let them anything but humanities, don't let them waste their time and money". She reckons the popular humanities degrees are just not worth it - looking at where the money in higher education is going and the job prospect data after doing a humanities degree. They pull in loads of students for the Uni, they are cheap to deliver and are therefore a money spinner.

TBH I cringe whenever I hear a friend is funding their kids to do an English Lit degree in the UK (we live in the EU - we'd be looking at at least £80,000 for a four year course).

OP - I did a PhD with the same naivety and lack of awareness that it wasn't a direct line to a job / career. My parents were very keen on paper qualifications but were unable to advise me what to actually do with them. So I kept going back for more because it was what I was good at, what I got praised for - and kept hoping things would somehow 'happen'. All that happened was that I wasted umpteen years finding out and reinforcing that I was good at studying and getting high marks.

DH has a PhD which has allowed us to travel and work overseas. We now have enough money to live comfortably having taken early retirement. DS has PhD which had sufficient transferable skills to get him a job. Definitely worth it in this household.

I did a science PhD alongside full-time work. I've never worked in academia, but have had jobs in both public sector and industry.

The PhD hasn't been required for any of my jobs, but has definitely been an asset - in my field you look for people who can demonstrate an understanding of, and ability to work with data. Having a PhD on your CV goes a long way to convincing interviewers that you have the technical ability to do detailed analyses in an academically rigorous way.

A friend who worked her way up in industry would certainly benefit from an MBA The applications I have received from MBA grads were bloody awful - it's almost like they were saying - I've got an MBA - it's your lucky day! I am left wondering - all that education and they have no idea how to go about writing a covering letter.

I did a funded humanities PhD mid-career when I already had publications, etc. thinking I wanted to move into academia full time - then I truly hated it and thought my PhD has been a waste of time.

I then landed a great job in a company where with a PhD you are fast tracked into management/senior management, now I do an interesting job I love, I earn well and have fab life/work balance.

If you ha asked me in 2019 I would have said to you that my doctorate was a waste of time, now in 2022 I am saying it was one of the best professional decisions I have taken in my life.

I suppose this narrative is different for each of us according to where we are.

apologies for the typos as I'm writing from my phone and autocorrect is not being my friend :)

I’d only do one as an indulgence I think, if I had time, money and a strong academic interest, but am at a different life stage from someone looking to launch a career. I always imagine a lot of research is out of date by the time the phd is finished.

@DomusAurea

I did a funded humanities PhD mid-career when I already had publications, etc. thinking I wanted to move into academia full time - then I truly hated it and thought my PhD has been a waste of time.

I then landed a great job in a company where with a PhD you are fast tracked into management/senior management, now I do an interesting job I love, I earn well and have fab life/work balance.

If you ha asked me in 2019 I would have said to you that my doctorate was a waste of time, now in 2022 I am saying it was one of the best professional decisions I have taken in my life.

I suppose this narrative is different for each of us according to where we are.

Keen to hear your field @DomusAurea?

there are good jobs outside academia for humanities PhDs. It's a good start for civil service fast stream.

I have a humanities doctorate and a proper academic job which I got nearly 30 years ago. I was bloody lucky to get it as even then we were being warned that supply vastly outstrips demand in my area (classics). I am shocked that your supervisors weren't more upfront with you - especially since 2008's recession, everyone knows that there are no, or very few jobs. I also think that university teaching has changed a lot - I am within 10 years of retirement and will go sooner if I can.

I guess the main thing is OP that you’ve taken your academic qualifications to the highest possible level, so you won’t have it in the back of your mind that ‘one day I’d like to do a PhD’. Most people (including me) that I know who have done a humanities PhD don’t work in academia, or have fabulous high paying careers, so you are not alone.

It does sound like your department led you on a bit of a merry dance with promises of funding and jobs that never materialised so I can see why you feel somewhat bitter about that - especially as they encourage you not to follow your plan c.

@TheKeatingFive

As someone with an arts PhD, it hasn't actively hindered my employment. It's made my CV stand out in specific situations in fact and I've had opportunities off the back of it I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Timing matters though, and attitude. Someone fresh out of a PhD, who is willing to start at the bottom (or thereabouts) is very employable. What's less good is if you've a string of post docs/short term academic jobs and are then trying to make the move. Or if you think your PhD means you should be several rungs up the ladder compared to others.

A related issue is the difficulty of settling down for ‘late starters’. The majority of FTB are getting older. 30+ by the time they can afford to buy, with close to a decade of saving. You’ll be even further behind if you’re a similar age but just only started a ‘well-paid’ job. the majority of jobs requiring a humanities PhD aren’t going to be in cheap s areas (Uni towns aren’t that cheap either with LL’s buying up housing!)

Many on low incomes will never afford it. By the time you save prices increase again and kids are money sinks…

Also I know thread title doesn’t specify but this is really about FT PhD’s.
Part-time/mid-career etc are a different thing altogether.

@VeryQuaintIrene

I have a humanities doctorate and a proper academic job which I got nearly 30 years ago. I was bloody lucky to get it as even then we were being warned that supply vastly outstrips demand in my area (classics). I am shocked that your supervisors weren't more upfront with you - especially since 2008's recession, everyone knows that there are no, or very few jobs. I also think that university teaching has changed a lot - I am within 10 years of retirement and will go sooner if I can.

I dunno, I think this is too simplistic really. Yes, there are very few jobs today, and there were very few jobs ten and twenty and thirty years ago.

But, demonstrably, there are jobs and there are people who get them, and this has always been true too.

So you make the best, most informed choices you can. And so do your supervisors (or they should). The problem is that the goal posts have shifted so fast in the last few years that what seem like good, informed choices aren't any more.

Domus, I live in hope that one day I'll get some payoff for having completed the PhD. When I started I was in my thirties and already working in HE, so it did seem reasonably logical. I worked ft and did it pt. I still work in HE in a professional services role. It hasn't done much for my career, although there's a vague kudos when you're in a HE setting. It has done me neither a huge amount of harm or a huge amount of good.

There was a period in my life when I felt PhD (humanities) was the biggest mistake in my life. It was a traumatic experience which resulted in a flat pass. I also discovered that I absolutely did not want to work in academia.

Then, there was a period when I felt my PhD was exactly the right thing to do because it eventually (!!) led me to jobs I wanted to do and a decent pay.

Then the time came when I became utterly bored with the subject and decided to leave entire industry and start anew. Some skills were transferrable. A lot of knowledge was not. But I never really looked back. It's been 10 years since I got mine and most days it doesn't even seem real.

Aren't all PhDs pass or fail?

@KeepAgnusSafe if one of those covering letters was written in the style of a Xmas thank you letter that will be my bootstrap friend. No qualifications, or outside training can be really limiting.
I'm not saying all MBAs do come out job ready but they should, it should be for polishing an already experienced employee.

@SarahAndQuack - no, you can also pass conditional to minor or major corrections.

@SarahAndQuack if the PhD is looking a bit hopeless or personal circumstances have made completion impossible, some institutions will convert to an MPhil.

There is immense pressure on supervisors even at the Russell Group lot , not to fail lucrative oversea self funded students. Everyone hates it, staff and decent students.

[quote DeepDown12]@SarahAndQuack - no, you can also pass conditional to minor or major corrections.[/quote]
But those are not grades, they're just to do with what you need to do. If you pass with minor corrections (or no corrections) you have a pass; if you pass with major corrections you have a pass. There's no distinction except informally (where of course people are delighted to get no corrections).

I feel that for the purposes of this thread, everyone should be using their titles and referencing their key papers.
Dr TunaTastic

@SarahAndQuack there is a distinction. For anything other than flat pass (or pass without corrections) you're given a deadline until which you must make those corrections and resubmit. If those corrections satisfy your committee - then your pass is confirmed. Another option is 'resubmission' where you're invited to re-do a massive part of your PhD, but I think in most cases committee's then suggest degrading the thesis to MPhil. Finally, the worst outcome is flat fail.

@SarahAndQuack

Aren't all PhDs pass or fail?

No, you can pass no corrections (like I did) pass minor (max 2 months to do them, tends to be minor clarification points and spag mistakes), pass major (6 months max) the thesis is PhD strength but needs some more substantial changes. Revise and resubmit this will require you to take a year and well revise and resubmit, you will go back to being a student for this and have supervisions, you’ll also be required to re viva. You can then be offered an alternative qualification which is pretty much failing, that’s basically there is no hope for this to be a PhD, have an mphil for your hardwork. I think you probably can also fail fail and walk away with nothing but I imagine that’s for explicit plagiarism

[quote TunaTastic]@SarahAndQuack if the PhD is looking a bit hopeless or personal circumstances have made completion impossible, some institutions will convert to an MPhil.

There is immense pressure on supervisors even at the Russell Group lot , not to fail lucrative oversea self funded students. Everyone hates it, staff and decent students.[/quote]
Yes, but that's different, isn't it? It's not a failed or a passed PhD, it's just not a PhD!