If you are a beef / sheep / chicken farmer, are you noticing a fall in demand?

[anotherotherone]

I was just travelling back down to London by train and there seem to be a lot less sheep and cows in the fields than normal. Am I imagining things?

There are so many meat / dairy alternatives in the shops now. AIBU to think (well, hope) that as people are eating less meat these days and this trend looks set to continue,
are farmers reacting by reducing their stocks?

@anotherotherone as of last year, red tractor farms (which account for 95% of farms) are not allowed to kill calves at birth. In addition there are very few male calves born due to sexed semen.

NCForThis2022 - Thankyou for replying honestly and without sarcasm. There was a thread I read on here a couple of years ago, but I couldn’t even respond to it because it was so distressing. It was very aggressive farmers, saying that anyone who eats meat and not dairy was a hypocrite. It was a horrible thread. Horrendous stories of what happens to dairy cows. They were telling about the make calves called ‘Bobby calves” (???). They said these are the male calves that get hit in the head with a mallet and slung in a lorry at birth. They also said that when cows are mooing, they are calling for their calves who get taken from them at birth. I didn’t have dairy for two years after that thread and still avoid it now if there’s an alternative. Also, there were other British farmers saying they throw male chicks into a mincer.

[quote Monsteres]So you think that the fruit and veg aren't grown, transported, cut, cleaned, processed, packaged and distributed? And how are avocados and almonds which are grown abroad and flown in not worse? You really think a cow which is a naturally emitting CO2 is worse then a plane?! Come on! www.farmersagainstmisinformation.com/news/do-livestock-emit-more-ghg-than-transportation-no[/quote]
Neither avocados nor almonds are flown in.

And much of the problem with cows is CH4 not CO2,

@crackofdoom most upland farms the national trust own are on AHA tenancies which mean they run for three generations. The best the Trust can do is engage the new generations.

The National Trust do a significant amount on land they control. Although I don’t work for them anymore I have a colleague who has spent years hand planting sphagnum moss to restore peat moorlands.

sheep in the sheds, lambing. Cows not out because the grass isn't growing yet.

Fine shipped in then, and actually fossil fuels are the worse for methane production which are used in planes and ships?

Monsteres
For someone who's linked to a website called "Farmers against misinformation", you're certainly coming out with a lot of misinformation. As does that website, actually- long, ranty, ungrammatical opinion piece, heavy on the assertions and light on the evidence to back them up. Apart from a link to one article saying that, depending on how you look at it, emissions from livestock are bad but emissions from transport are badderer, a fact that I don't believe to be in dispute.

If there genuinely WAS a website run by farmers who are against misinformation, I'd be eager to see it!

Oh, and trees will self seed and grow through brambles eventually. Some say it's better to leave them to do it that way, as the brambles provide natural protection against deer etc.

It’s mostly people 40+ who are still drink cow tit milk. Luckily the newer generations have realised that I drinking milk from another species is weird!

It's even weirder to pretend to milk the tits of almonds, soya and oats.
Which are also other species, btw,

2bazookas
Nonsense, you just need someone with very small hands 😆

There's load of information from farmers if you actually look for it, you obviously think you are far more superior with your intelligence then me , shame your common sense is so lacking to see what is actually happening. Trees can't grow through anything, they need sunlight, which thick coverings of things like brambles prevent. All you need to do is look at thick bramble and long grass coverage to see how poor any tree growth is? Maybe try going outside in nature rather then just reading about something that suits your views?

@Mangogogogo

I’m not disputing there are more people buying it but when I go to zero waste places they’re full of these meat replacements.. so I’m not massively convinced they’re as popular as people think they are

I've noticed that too. Great for people like me who buy them and want to save money, but not for the movement as a whole

@anotherotherone

NCForThis2022 - Thankyou for replying honestly and without sarcasm. There was a thread I read on here a couple of years ago, but I couldn’t even respond to it because it was so distressing. It was very aggressive farmers, saying that anyone who eats meat and not dairy was a hypocrite. It was a horrible thread. Horrendous stories of what happens to dairy cows. They were telling about the make calves called ‘Bobby calves” (???). They said these are the male calves that get hit in the head with a mallet and slung in a lorry at birth. They also said that when cows are mooing, they are calling for their calves who get taken from them at birth. I didn’t have dairy for two years after that thread and still avoid it now if there’s an alternative. Also, there were other British farmers saying they throw male chicks into a mincer.

Is it just me? This narrative of the naive OP that is delivering these supposedly powerful messages (that aren't new to anybody) trying to be as gruesome as possible.... it's coming across a bit contrived. I'm not buying it.

However there are many interesting contributions in this thread.

@crackofdoom

2bazookas Nonsense, you just need someone with very small hands 😆

But do you use a really short stool, or a ladder?

How many times can you milk an almond before it's dry and only fit for the knut-knacker?

Is it just me?

No. The OP clearly thinks they're being veggie-not-vegan clever by sneaking in the usual teenage PETA arguments over a multi-page drip-feed.

I'm not sure anyone is really taking them seriously.

@2bazookas

It’s mostly people 40+ who are still drink cow tit milk. Luckily the newer generations have realised that I drinking milk from another species is weird!

It's even weirder to pretend to milk the tits of almonds, soya and oats.
Which are also other species, btw,

Ah yes, bring on the ageism. Yawn.

DoginaTent I hear there is widespread exploitation of the elf and fairy communities who work in the almond industry. Workers are rarely paid even the minimum wage and the balance is made up in fairy dust, to which they inevitably become addicted.

In addition, little thought is given to the male almond blossoms, which are abandoned to wither at birth 😢

@crackofdoom

DoginaTent I hear there is widespread exploitation of the elf and fairy communities who work in the almond industry. Workers are rarely paid even the minimum wage and the balance is made up in fairy dust, to which they inevitably become addicted.

In addition, little thought is given to the male almond blossoms, which are abandoned to wither at birth 😢

It's nothing compared to the treatment of the quorn gnolls, shoveling fermented goop-gloop day and night in unlit sheds.

DoginaTent yes, and sometimes they fall in the vats and become incorporated into the sausages. I've found a little shoe in one before 😱

If you say I’m a naive city-dweller - well, go on, educate me then. No need to be snippy and supercilious. If you want people to “understand,” then just explain surely? I wouldn’t sneer at anyone who didn’t know the ins and outs of my job. If someone asked a straight question, I’d just tell them.

I’m glad to hear about the Red Tractor standard that now legislates against newborn male cows being killed at birth. I hope the 95% of farms that are abiding with this legislation, actually are, in practice. The 5% that are not should be prosecuted immediately.

Sorry for the “gruesome” details as someone put it, but since when was any type of farming that involves the slaughter of animals not going to be gruesome? . It’s is just normal life for farmers, surely, so not sure how I would be shocking anyone with a question about what farmers must see and do all the time?

I asked if it happens in the U.K. that male chicks are thrown into mincers. Is this true or not? If the answer is “No they are not,” then I would be very happy to hear it. It’s a straightforward question.

@Monsteres

Fine shipped in then, and actually fossil fuels are the worse for methane production which are used in planes and ships?

How exactly do ships produce methane?

Perhaps she means "Fossil fuels which are used in planes and ships are worse for methane production".

I think it's true that oil and natural gas extraction has a problem with flaring methane- different levels in different parts of the world.

What I find puzzling is her assertion that nobody's paying attention to the carbon / methane emissions of transport, as opposed to agriculture, when I'd say it was the other way round.

I asked if it happens in the U.K. that male chicks are thrown into mincers. Is this true or not? If the answer is “No they are not,” then I would be very happy to hear it. It’s a straightforward question.

Maceration and gassing are both acceptable methods in the UK, for practical reasons use of an inert gas is the most common. But you know this already, this false naivety is amusing but clearly affected.

insideclimatenews.org/news/01022020/shipping-lines-liquefied-natural-gas-methane-leaks/
Or if they use their normal fuel it's made from crude oil which is a fossil fuel

Just out of interest monsteres, do your animals receive any supplementary feeds at all? Or are they 100% grass fed?

If I knew I wouldn’t be asking.

I bet most people have no idea about this maceration. Or if they do, they imagine it would surely be illegal in the U.K. I am genuinely appalled this is considered “acceptable.” I have no words.