To think until we can control biolology men and woman will never really be equal

[LovelyYellowLabrador]

So many friends I know settle for a guys that’s not really good enough for them
The whole biological clock ticking is such a curse for women
It makes them rush to settle down and accept less than they should
And while it’s woman carrying the babies, giving birth and breastfeeding will always affect us

Maybe in the future when we can all freeze our eggs when we are young
And science and technology enables all of us , to be able to have children later in life we are
always going to struggle

The amount of women I know that have put up with shitty partners is unbelievable
And I swear this is a massive reason why

Women don't HAVE to put up with shitty behaviour, they CHOOSE to. There are plenty of ways to have a baby these days without the need to settle for a useless partner.

You can’t guarantee the guy you’re with won’t change for the worse just because you waited till you were older to “settle down”. Humans are frail and ever changeable

I don't think 'controlling' biology is the way through this, personally.

At the broadest level, men and women are not the same physically. There's no better or worse in that, just difference. And I would have thought the best way forward is to be more celebratory, knowledgeable and understanding of differences.

Women 'choosing' unideal men is a complex issue with various causes; confidence levels and mental health, male entitlement, female entitlement, societal expectations, upbringing, pressure to conform, finances, sexism, education... etc etc etc.

Nb. I really, really, really hate when women's biology is referred to as a 'curse', by the way. (Personal thing of mine, perhaps.)

We don't need to control biology, we need to observe it and adjust society to suit.

Example - we keep young people 'children' into their twenties, with school, university, training etc. Some of their strongest years are wasted.

Example - we encourage women to breed later in life, 30+. Physiologically (and perhaps psychologically) they might be better completing their families between the ages of 28 and 26.

Example - breastfeeding. So many new mothers turn up on mn, exhausted and worrying about their babies 'cluster feeding', trying to offer the breast (one breast, one side this time, the other next time) every 'one to three hours'. Observation of babies (who arrive already having 'read the book') shows that they're best left at the breast 24/7, and will suckle briefly every 20 minutes. Change sides when you like.

It's not biology that needs to change.

Yeah I can hear what your saying
Perhaps that is a better way to actually celebrate the differences and your right so much affects why people settle for less than they should

If a woman chooses to settle for a man she realises is not ideal partner/father material because she can’t wait to have children, that is entirely on her and she should own it..

@StopStartStop

We don't need to control biology, we need to observe it and adjust society to suit.

Example - we keep young people 'children' into their twenties, with school, university, training etc. Some of their strongest years are wasted.

Example - we encourage women to breed later in life, 30+. Physiologically (and perhaps psychologically) they might be better completing their families between the ages of 28 and 26.

Example - breastfeeding. So many new mothers turn up on mn, exhausted and worrying about their babies 'cluster feeding', trying to offer the breast (one breast, one side this time, the other next time) every 'one to three hours'. Observation of babies (who arrive already having 'read the book') shows that they're best left at the breast 24/7, and will suckle briefly every 20 minutes. Change sides when you like.

It's not biology that needs to change.

So much wisdom in this.

We’ve got too far away from biology! We can’t control it and we shouldn’t try to; it’s damaging to humanity.

So many friends I know settle for a guys that’s not really good enough for them

This is the problem. Not biology.

I think there is more to the problem than this

Like, the way we are raising our men

The way we treat women in pregnancy and birth and postnatally

The way women are automatically assigned all the primary care giving from birth. I'm not talking about the breastfeeding, I'm taking about the fact men are only given two weeks paternity. Women automatically take on the role of primary care giver from the off. This leads on to them taking on the household tasks, the household admin, doing all the childcare, doctors appointments, wake ups. Then we go back to work and we take on all that plus work. But if men were given more leave to be with and support their family, I think things would become more equal in the raising of the children.

So many friends I know settle for a guys that’s not really good enough for them

I see this so often and I never understand what it means. If it was that easy to snag and hold down a "better" guy, these women would do just that.
There is a competitive element to romantic relationships. Your qualities will be judged in relation to your peers, not in isolation.

They have just crested virgin births in mice, the need for a partner may be no more.

@maddening

They have just crested virgin births in mice, the need for a partner may be no more.

Wow some things we should just no do.

Considering the trauma and damage society like to ignore from adoptees and donor conceived children we should probably resolve that first before screwing up more people.

@maddening

They have just crested virgin births in mice, the need for a partner may be no more.

Virgin means no intercourse so they could already do that with humans.

Virgin means no intercourse so they could already do that with humans.

No it’s parthenogenesis that has been done with mice which means asexual reproduction solely from female cells to produce another female basically a clone. No mammals have been able to do this before now.

Perhaps the question is why there's such a low bar when it comes to men.

Men are put on pedestals for the bare minimum. Just being a regular, non abusive, caring, attentive man makes you some kind of otherworldly partner. As is doing the basics with children, housework etc.

I mentioned this to a friend recently and her response was that it's because women have come from being way less than equal to still being less than equal. Therefore, expectations are generally lower. As a man I find this interesting/depressing if true.

I do think that's true-sometimes. I know three people who gave their boyfriends ultimatums to propose by X date, which they thought reflected self respect and I thought reflected a lack of self respect (if the guy isn't that crazy about you and you have to issue ultimatums as a result, or he's simply not ready, then marriage is a bad idea). One of these guys was a complete loser and now he's in her life forever as an ex as he is father of her kids (and a crap one at that).

Sometimes you also can't know someone is going to be a nightmare partner until after you've had.kids, the marriage gets properly tested with late nights, no sleep, money issues, juggling work and babies, and all that, and then the guy let's them down. By that point you're so involved it's hard to extracate yourself.

there are many things society can do to strengthen equality including

• tackle gender stereotypes in primary school - kids shouldn't grow up thinking that nurses are women and men drive trucks etc, but far too many do
• support both parents in childcare including LONG paternity leave and cheap good nurseries
• tackle street harassment / violence against women / rape culture

Fixing those cultural things will make a much bigger difference than worrying about biological clocks. And egg-freezing / IVF can work wonders these days.

The attempts to control biology is why there’s inequality. Supporting biological reality instead of trying to harness it to exploit women’s labour would make more of a difference

@CounsellorTroi

If a woman chooses to settle for a man she realises is not ideal partner/father material because she can’t wait to have children, that is entirely on her and she should own it..

This totally. Stop trying to blame everybody else.

Fixing those cultural things will make a much bigger difference than worrying about biological clocks. And egg-freezing / IVF can work wonders these days.

They can but very often don’t. Not wise to rely on those things.

I'm actually a little insulted and concerned about the narrative that women are so blinded and controlled by their want (because it's a want not a need or necessity) for a child that they can not make rational or sound decisions.

People I think sometimes live in a bubble! They don’t communicate honesty, sometimes in the hope that the other person comes round to their way of thinking! But it’s not one person fault over the other - each are responsible.

Husband and I discussed before having children who would take on the majority of childcare etc At that time we both had similar careers and earned the same. We had a discussion around SAHP/nursery what we each needed to be able to do to enable the other.
We didn’t have a second until we finished paying one set of nursery fees - yes I would have liked to have closer age gap - but we had to be (boring) responsable.

I don’t expect my husband to take on the lion share of financially providing for us - we both do. This has meant he hasn’t had to stay in a job he was very unhappy in and affected his mental health - because I worked we kept an roof over our heads. To enable that we both have to share the care of our children - picking up drop off etc etc Sacrifices need to be both ways, and expectations set.

People need to be honest, communicate and OWN the decision they make.

@AskingforaBaskin

I'm actually a little insulted and concerned about the narrative that women are so blinded and controlled by their want (because it's a want not a need or necessity) for a child that they can not make rational or sound decisions.

If this doesn't relate to you then there is me need to feel insulted as it's not directed at you. There are however many threads on Mn alone where women are wanting to have kids with useless men because their clock is ticking, or they already have one and would rather have the same dad even if he is a useless shit.

We should be raising the bar for men and not accept a useless idiot because he doesn't the washing up once a week or takes the kids to the park on a Saturday morning.

Women are told through regressive stereotypes from a young age there are certain jobs that will fall to them (housework and childcare) and apparently most women are ok with accepting that, until it gets too hard and then they come on here to complain. We need to change the mindset and show women they are worth more than society thinks.

@purpleboy doesn't relate to me at all. I used some sense when having a child.

But there is definitely some lack of accountability for the women also.

How many more posts will we see from women at breaking point because of their useless partner. Who has always been awful.

Who then slip in they have decided to have more children with him and are pregnant.

These men couldn't be bad parents if they weren't given the opportunity

I'm not sure why you would be insulted then if it doesn't apply to you🤷🏽‍♀️