Is there such a thing as overstimulation (kids)

[Toyrus]

DD 4.5 is very social and loves activities/nursery. She is going to nursery 4 half days and one full day a week. 3 other afternoons she is doing classes. I should add that she is the one asking for all these additional activities, if it was for me I'd keep her home for the afternoon or just take her to the local playground. On top of this we manage to squeeze about 3 play dates a week, sometimes 4, as she has a lot of friends who want to see her.

Lately she's becoming a bit withdrawn, her speech has regressed a bit and she finds it harder to form long sentences. I have some concerns about her behaviour too, seems a bit odd the way she interacts with her friends.

DH thinks this is because she is too tired and over stimulated. But I know he says that partly because we are always out and he feels a bit lonely and neglected (he works from home). Is there such a thing as overstimulatiom having a negative impact on children? I mean she doesn't do much academic stuff, it's mainly play...and classes are sports and drama.

Have you asked her if there's anything bothering her? In a quiet place, just the two of you?

I don't necessarily think that 4 half days and 1 full day at nursery with some extra activities outside that is too much. It could be too much for some children - absolutely - but I'd be expecting a different behaviour if that were the case and I'd be expecting that behaviour to be linked to the days activities.

Red flags for me OP

• Regression with speech that isn't linked to being tired at the end of the day
• Unusual behaviour with friends (possibly even making things up?)
• Becoming withdrawn
• Sleeping more than normal

I'm also gleaning that while she's social and quietly confident, she's also maybe slightly introverted around adults as part of her nature?

You say she told you her friend did something, but you suspect she made it up - what did he do? why didn't you believe her?

4yr olds when they're tired and over stimulated- it's usually really obvious (highly fussy/tantruming etc) and you can see the link to where you are in the day.

You describe a subtle but also significant behavioural change. Significant enough that it brought you here to ask for help because you can feel in your gut something is wrong? Is that fair to say?

So I'd be approaching this two fold

• one is a clinical route - book a non-urgent appointment with the GP. Wait times are usually 3 weeks and during that time I'd be keeping a note on things like the speech, sleeping etc. If it comes to nothing, she has a bit of downtime, and she goes back to normal and it really is just a case of over tiredness you can always cancel the appointment

• the 2nd is psychological and safeguarding. Take some time with her, remind her she's not to keep secrets from Mummy and try and get her to open up a little bit. I'm not saying jump to the worst possible conclusion but I would be wondering if something in her little world is making her anxious?

Impressive on the Tv, i think most kids have double this ( 2 hours) or a lot have much much more ( despite what the hairy handed on here say about their child having 10 minutes once a fortnight.)

Do you feel the play has changed from alongside to more interactive games? It maybe either the kids are behind her and she's loosing interest. Her being an older in the school year child. Or she's not so interested in their games and prefers playing alongside. I wouldn't jump to a special need, but worth keeping an eye on her health. So many bugs around but if it goes on too long definitely a doctor visit. A multivitamin daily is a good support of you don't already.

I agree that children need to learn to play by themselves which will be harder if they've been brought up being entertained all the time. My son is 4 as well and is very happy to play with his trains or build lego by himself. He plays out scenarios and does voices for the characters. He goes round the garden looking for bugs or messing about with the gravel and the watering can.

Why are you limiting tv so much? Couple of hours a day won't hurt her and might give her the unwind time she needs.

I think your DD is doing too much and in doing so she has missed out on learning to play alone, which is a very important skill. I’ve noticed you’ve said a couple of times in your posts that you arrange play dates because the other children/child love your DD, which seems rather strange to me. Where do your DD’s thoughts/wants come into this? Is she being pushed into these play dates? And why didn’t you believe her when she said the boy did something to her? Maybe try slowing it down and actually listening to your DD so that hopefully you will be able to get to the bottom of her rather worrying change of behaviour.

This isn't related to your daughter specifically but just my take on over-stimulation in general.

I believe that there is such thing as over-stimulation when it comes to children and I have a strong suspicion that this has been one of the key drivers of anxiety and depression in teenagers. Hold your horses before jumping on me though!

There is a large amount of data that shows over the past 10-15 years the amount of time which children and adolescents are "on" has increased massively. From computer games and social media to groups and social functions, children do more now than at any point in history (except being stuck up chimneys but I'm not advocating for that!) I don't think it is a coincidence that teens have been more miserable and anxious since this time. Why? Because when do children just "be"? If we get our children to "do" all of the time, then they can't sit with emotions, thoughts and their experience without needing a distraction.

Mindfulness has seen a big drive over the past decade and rightfully too. People in general have to be distracted, often because they can't tolerate feeling or thinking. The problem is that over time this stops us being able to anticipate problems and deal with them in advance - leading to higher anxiety when problems crop up.

If you look at the following, I would suggest a middle ground would be much healthier for ALL people, not just kids:

Being Doing

Being is just being in the moment. Not thinking about the future or the past. Just noticing where we are, what we feel and our experiences.

Doing is being actively engaged in "things" - occupation, education, activity, social etc. We are often on auto-pilot at these times.

I do have hope though as mindfulness and other types of grounding are being widely taught in schools now so I hope the next generation will do more "being".

Anyway I am unsure if I have answered the question but I hope you get what I mean!

@Poppy92r

Have you asked her if there's anything bothering her? In a quiet place, just the two of you?

I don't necessarily think that 4 half days and 1 full day at nursery with some extra activities outside that is too much. It could be too much for some children - absolutely - but I'd be expecting a different behaviour if that were the case and I'd be expecting that behaviour to be linked to the days activities.

Red flags for me OP

• Regression with speech that isn't linked to being tired at the end of the day
• Unusual behaviour with friends (possibly even making things up?)
• Becoming withdrawn
• Sleeping more than normal

I'm also gleaning that while she's social and quietly confident, she's also maybe slightly introverted around adults as part of her nature?

You say she told you her friend did something, but you suspect she made it up - what did he do? why didn't you believe her?

4yr olds when they're tired and over stimulated- it's usually really obvious (highly fussy/tantruming etc) and you can see the link to where you are in the day.

You describe a subtle but also significant behavioural change. Significant enough that it brought you here to ask for help because you can feel in your gut something is wrong? Is that fair to say?

So I'd be approaching this two fold

• one is a clinical route - book a non-urgent appointment with the GP. Wait times are usually 3 weeks and during that time I'd be keeping a note on things like the speech, sleeping etc. If it comes to nothing, she has a bit of downtime, and she goes back to normal and it really is just a case of over tiredness you can always cancel the appointment

• the 2nd is psychological and safeguarding. Take some time with her, remind her she's not to keep secrets from Mummy and try and get her to open up a little bit. I'm not saying jump to the worst possible conclusion but I would be wondering if something in her little world is making her anxious?

I absolutely agree with this I'm afraid. I don't think she's necessarily doing too much, my 4 year old goes to school all day, a class on a Monday, play dates or park after school on lots of days, out most Saturdays and visiting family on Sundays. I know they're l different but it's just to give you an idea OP.

Regression in speech and change in behavior should be checked by a doctor.

@PinkSyCo oh no, my DD loves her friends too and is always up for a play date. I would never push her into any of it. If I'm completely honest I don't really enjoy play dates, I'm an introvert and I much rather go to a playground and let her do her own thing. It's just that some of her friends don't have so many other friends or classes like her and so request a few play dates a week, which is not something that we can possibly do. I rarely arrange anything tbh. because we simply don't have any time left.

We had play dates every day of the week this week and had one scheduled today between pre school and her class which thankfully got cancelled. Then I'm going to cancel another proposal for Sunday, just need a quiet Mother's day.

I didn't believe the boy did anything because I didn't see it and it would be completely unusual for him. He is very well behaved and likes her a lot and if he really did anything serious she'd have reacted differently. I think she probably just needed some time out but didn't know how to express it.

I know I get overstimulated when I’ve too much on, so why wouldn’t kids?!

@Burgoo I'm sure a lot of it is true. It's not something that I have given much thought to before, like I said I followed her lead. But I'm glad to read all these responses, it does make me put things into perspective.

A 4.5 year old at school would be doing 5 full days and certainly wouldn't be unusual to have a couple of play dates and clubs after school. Unless she is getting upset going, then I don't think she is doing much.

Is it a nursery attached to a school? If not, it could be many children her age are moving in preparation for school and she's playing with younger children. Or maybe playing with younger children regardless.

It could be she's seen younger children get more attention and she wants to play baby or/and be babied.

I'd probably just 'I didn't understand that, can you say it again?' when she's saying words she knows how to say incorrectly. Suspect it will pass when she starts school at the latest.

@Poppy92r

Red flags for me OP

• Regression with speech that isn't linked to being tired at the end of the day
• Unusual behaviour with friends (possibly even making things up?)
• Becoming withdrawn
• Sleeping more than normal

I'm also gleaning that while she's social and quietly confident, she's also maybe slightly introverted around adults as part of her nature?

You say she told you her friend did something, but you suspect she made it up - what did he do? why didn't you believe her?

4yr olds when they're tired and over stimulated- it's usually really obvious (highly fussy/tantruming etc) and you can see the link to where you are in the day.

You describe a subtle but also significant behavioural change. Significant enough that it brought you here to ask for help because you can feel in your gut something is wrong? Is that fair to say?

So I'd be approaching this two fold

• one is a clinical route - book a non-urgent appointment with the GP. Wait times are usually 3 weeks and during that time I'd be keeping a note on things like the speech, sleeping etc. If it comes to nothing, she has a bit of downtime, and she goes back to normal and it really is just a case of over tiredness you can always cancel the appointment

• the 2nd is psychological and safeguarding. Take some time with her, remind her she's not to keep secrets from Mummy and try and get her to open up a little bit. I'm not saying jump to the worst possible conclusion but I would be wondering if something in her little world is making her anxious?

I work with children and 100% agree with this.

@Barrawarra

I know I get overstimulated when I’ve too much on, so why wouldn’t kids?!

Absolutely, your DDs schedule sounds exhausting. My DD was is very sociable but also used to ask for a 'home day', even now as a teen she says this if things get too busy. It is also worth remembering that your DD is still very young and while it is good to follow her lead it is important that you also take the lead and set boundaries to ensure that there is a good balance and enough downtime even if she is bored. It is important for kids to be bored and not be busy all the time. It is also important for kids to be happy in their own company, I think this helps to build resilience and self confidence as much as social activities do.

A 4.5 year old at school would be doing 5 full days and certainly wouldn't be unusual to have a couple of play dates and clubs after school. Unless she is getting upset going, then I don't think she is doing much.

That was exactly my thinking when I've added extra activities.

I believe children can be over scheduled and over simulated; boredom leads to creativity and discovery imho plus I have a house full of toys, art material, books, music, a garden, baking equipment etc. all for the purpose of entertainment so dd(6 now) is steered towards all of these things if she says she’s bored.

I don’t like it when she has a particularly busy period and starts expecting every day to be filled by me with some sort of structured activity or exciting trip somewhere and will purposefully start to tone things down a bit.

Thinking of the future not every day can be filled with excitement, for a lot of people they’re too time/cash poor and it’s just not viable. I want her to have the skills to content herself.

Plus I agree with other posters that children need time to just ‘be’ and process whatever they’ve experienced in their day. They’re still learning about life generally at a phenomenal rate and need to get a handle on so many random little bits of new information they’ve picked up throughout their day.

@Toyrus

She's not very good at playing alone, so we have to entertain her if we stay home. Being out is the easier option most of the time. Plus when she does classes I have some time to myself.

Then that shows she's not spending enough time at home.

Learning to entertain themselves is a really important part of development. There's a lot out there about teaching kids this skill. Eg: setting up a play scene for them, engaging at the start to get them interested, then slowly withdrawing.

You’ve said:

She’s a bit withdrawn, her speech has regressed a bit and she finds it harder to form long sentences. I have some concerns about her behaviour too, seems a bit odd the way she interacts with her friends.

I’d go to the GP, that’s a significant change. Why would overstimulation do any of those things?

@Toyrus

She's not very good at playing alone, so we have to entertain her if we stay home. Being out is the easier option most of the time. Plus when she does classes I have some time to myself.

I think you have answered your own question here a bit. Some children, and in the future teens and adults, are not comfortable with just themselves, and need constant external stimulation. This doesn't have to necessarily be all negative, but it doesn't tend to feed imagination or creative thought. Very busy person think they are doing "everything " but often don't see the invisible benefits of not doing structured things.

She sounds exhausted tbh. And hasn't learnt to enjoy being at home and playing independently as she hasn't had a chance to develop those skills.

I really would dial it down and help her develop the ability to "be" as above and also to play independently. Constant rushing and changing of activity/people can be hugely overwhelmingm

I have to agree with others. It might well be that she needs more downtime - at home quietly chilling or perhaps just doing quieter activities like a walk or a trip to the park. It does sounds also like she does a lot with you facilitating, but not with you actually doing if that makes sense? But I think the behaviour changes do need a little more investigation and thought.

I'd also be a bit annoyed with nursery - they shouldn't be "surprised" at how articulate she is. Their job is to engage with children at their own level and get to understand them. To me, it sounds like she's low maintenance at nursery so they just ignore her. Which is not great either.

I'd be having casual but probing conversations with her, giving her a bit more downtime and considering a general GP appointment .

What Poppy said. Chat to your daughter when it’s just you two, keep it light but find out if something or someone is worrying her.

@SagaNorenLansrimMalmo

You’ve said:

She’s a bit withdrawn, her speech has regressed a bit and she finds it harder to form long sentences. I have some concerns about her behaviour too, seems a bit odd the way she interacts with her friends.

I’d go to the GP, that’s a significant change. Why would overstimulation do any of those things?

I agree with the GP consultation bit if OP is concerned, or even whatever family service she falls under now (HV? School Nurse) but I can see the logic in identifying over simulation as a cause.

If a child isn’t getting enough time to process and order the information they receive everyday then it’s possible they’re experiencing thoughts and feelings they either haven’t got the skills yet to name or the words to use. There might also be an element of confidence and not feeling they have any control in a situation. If a person is bombarded with information it can be very hard to order it and repeat it logically and in context.

The play date described for example, she meets a friend she knows well and enjoys time playing with. She doesn’t have the tools or the status really to explain that it’s not that she doesn’t like him but that she doesn’t want to play right now. In her mind that’s her friend, why on earth would she not want to play with him? 4yr old logic dictates that she must not like him because he’s done something to her even if she can’t name what that is and that’s the reason she doesn’t want to play. She’s not experienced enough to know or be confident that it’s perfectly normal to just want to not play. The process isn’t as calculated as that obviously but her brain is busy looking for solutions based on what she knows.

I think you are doing your best to provide lots of lovely activities and opportunities for socialising for your daughter, but I agree with lots of the other replies that children need unstructured 'down time' when they are at home, and can just learn to play and entertain themselves. It's great that you've noticed changes in her behavior and can now cut back on the activities- I'm sure this will help. I'm sure she might say she's bored, but that can be a good thing.

@Toyrus

She's not very good at playing alone, so we have to entertain her if we stay home. Being out is the easier option most of the time. Plus when she does classes I have some time to myself.

How will she ever learn to play alone if not given the opportunity?

There is no such thing as a child who is "not good" at playing alone - it just means their parents haven't enabled them to do so. It's a habit that you have to encourage, best started from birth but can be introduced later - you just have to be prepared for initial resistance and hold the line. It is incredibly beneficial for the developing brain.

I have a child the same age and yes there is such a thing as overstimulation. She is also social like your DD but too much sends her a bit dolally! So I give her plenty of time just to potter about doing her own thing in the house/garden.