To think the school need to get a grip?

[Tyrozet]

Just had a text from my son informing me of a letter he is bringing home from school about a trip abroad next year.

The cost of the trip alone is nearly £1000 - it is a skiing trip so on top of the basic cost of the trip, special clothes need to be purchased, passports paid for and of course spending money - I'd say all in it will be at least £1500.

It's a state school in a town with many deprived areas.

I know you can just say "no" if it's not affordable but AIBU to think the school shouldn't be putting on trips like this at a time when many families are having to choose between which basic essentials they can afford?

Things are shit enough as it is for alot of people without having the added kick in the teeth that this is completely unreachable at the moment.

@IsabellaDulcie

Europe (mostly Austria or northern Italy) and Canada (no idea why they think Canada when there are great ski areas in Europe).

The snow is about 100X better in Canada, but it is very cold. I went skiing for the 1st time at school, so pleased I got the opportunity. I think schools should try to keep the costs down, but is a really valuable experience.

Well the world is full of really valuable experiences but that doesn't mean there should be any school or peer pressure to offer them. And schools do have discretion as to where they are setting the bar in terms of extravagance and cost. I would skiing in the high-cost/low educational value category. Here in Ireland, lots of young people go to improve their Irish for 2 or 3 weeeks residential camps for the summer in Gaeltacht areas. The costs are (I think) a bit less than described here for much longer at full board and with educational and other value. Now that is something worth scrimping and scraping for - and it fills a good chunk of those long summer holidays for 14 or 15 year olds

I agree OP. School trips should be available for everyone with a fund to help those whose parents can’t afford to send them. School isn’t the place to widen the gap between those with affluent parents and those on the breadline. Every child deserves the same opportunities throughout their school career.

It isn't a school trip. It's not on the curriculum, it's not during term time, it's not paid for by the school.

And again, just because you can't afford it means no one else can have it?

I've never understood why school put these trips on. Even when I was at school, more than 30 years ago, all the local schools ran an annual ski trip. Only about 20% of the year group it was for would go, so it's not a question of being the only one if you don't go, but still why?

What is the purpose of these trips? Why are they beneficial enough, for the small number that go, for the school to go to the effort of organising it and for staff to give up their half term to go? (Usually in school holidays here).

[quote toomuchfruit]@JudgeRindersMinder

You surely don't believe this school trip is inclusive ? An inclusive school trip would be one that both poor and rich kids can afford to go on.[/quote]

So...free ones only?

Sorry but I don’t see the problem. Even when I was at school there were extortionate trips. You sit your kid down and explain that they aren’t going. There’s plenty of situations they will face in life where they won’t be able to do something. I can’t afford music lessons for my DD because they are too expensive, she can’t take it as a GCSE but I thought lessons. I’ve had to say no. End of. Does it suck?? Yep but it’s not the end of the world.

It's not a school trip in the sense that it's got educational value and is part of the curriculum - it's a trip that the school puts on during the holidays. Teachers give up their time to take the kids, supervise them, deal with the broken legs, bad behaviour, emergencies etc etc - too right they don't have to pay for their places. The last trip my DS went on left at 6.30am Boxing Day morning, so they give up their family Christmas as well (I am not a teacher but I have every respect for the superb bunch of teachers that accompany these trips).

@DazzlingDarrenDring

YANBU

They say having school uniform is to stop price tag bullying, then they put out these trips that sort out the rich kids from the not so rich.

Some parents will end up shelling out for this and getting themselves into debt, as they feel they have no choice.

Those that go will form a bond with the teachers and be treated more favourably

I can't see one benefit from offering these expensive trips. If you want your kid to go skiing that badly, take them yourself.

Oh dont be daft. No parent need get themselves in debt so their child can be one of the 20 children out of 2000 or so that go skiing.

A tiny fraction of the school go on these trips, so really unlikely to lead to bullying, privileged treatment, kids feeling excluded etc.

And every ski trip at my DS's school was oversubscribed with a waiting list so clearly lots of families did value the trip.

@theleafandnotthetree

Is there a government subsidy to the organisations running the Gaeltacht courses? If not, how do they manage to keep the costs so low?Is it just that the Gaeltacht areas are relatively low cost?

Is it not like saying schools shouldn't offer football teams because some kids can't run. Or offer higher GCSE papers because some kids can't get over a C (showing my age there!). Or Mandarin because some kids will never go to China.

It's not compulsory, it's out of term time, I don't see the issue.

For what's it's worth I went to a poor secondary school which didn't offer a trip

[quote RandomThought96]@theleafandnotthetree

Is there a government subsidy to the organisations running the Gaeltacht courses? If not, how do they manage to keep the costs so low?Is it just that the Gaeltacht areas are relatively low cost?[/quote]
I believe the government subsidises the accomodation side of it to the equivelent of something like 10 euro per day per person (which goes to the host families). And yes, costs would be somewhat lower in those areas and this is not fancy accommodation we're talking about.

I suspect school staff love to organise these trips as the staff get to go subsidised. It is a huge saving for them to go to skiing in school holidays via school vs paying to go themselves.

They did this at our school too. Huge school and only around 15-20 places each year so only the rich kids went. They offered it to year 8 and 9s and if there were still spaces then it would get extended to the year sevens.

@daisyjgrey

No, not completely free but also not a ridiculous amount like £1000. Surely the school can find more reasonably priced holidays so that more children can enjoy them ? It's really not that hard..

[quote toomuchfruit]@daisyjgrey

No, not completely free but also not a ridiculous amount like £1000. Surely the school can find more reasonably priced holidays so that more children can enjoy them ? It's really not that hard..[/quote]

But if a trip is to be able to be affording by absolutely everyone, and therefore totally 'fair', it would have to be free. There will be people who can't afford it whether it's £1000 or £100.

The fact that they want a very large deposit to even be put on the list for a place is excluding people - nobody can have time to organise fundraisers or apply for grants with such a short turnaround.

It's not a case of "if I can't have it for my child then nobody else should". There's a big difference between not having the means to fund expensive trips or hobbies on a private/individual level - but the school shouldn't be facilitating something that basically divides and excludes large groups of children based on what their parents earn.

@IsabellaDulcie

Europe (mostly Austria or northern Italy) and Canada (no idea why they think Canada when there are great ski areas in Europe).

The snow is about 100X better in Canada, but it is very cold. I went skiing for the 1st time at school, so pleased I got the opportunity. I think schools should try to keep the costs down, but is a really valuable experience.

That may be and friends do go to Canada for skiing on a regular basis.

But I think for a trip oganised by the school I just can't see the need to go all over the top, voluntarily paid and in the holidays or not.

If a family is big into skiing than I would think they all go and enjoy a week in Canada. If one child is good at skiing I would assume they find a ski camp she/he can go to.

A school trip with 30 children and maybe 20 different abilities - over the top.

It's not a case of "if I can't have it for my child then nobody else should". There's a big difference between not having the means to fund expensive trips or hobbies on a private/individual level - but the school shouldn't be facilitating something that basically divides and excludes large groups of children based on what their parents earn.

No there isn't because it's not a school trip, it's not on the curriculum, it's not funded by the school and it's not in term time.

If your child's best friend was going to Disney world and the parents offered to take your child with them would you say no but they shouldn't go either because you can't afford it?

What about other trips? My sons are very talented at cricket, the cricket team offered a trip to South Africa to play, my sons didn't go because I didn't have enough money, should I have said it was unfair that the coach was offering to organise this trip and take members of the team with him and they shouldn't go because we couldn't?

The school is simply organising an out of school trip. Which has nothing to do with the curriculum or school life. It's just a trip in the holidays that some people (rich and poor) would let their child go on.

School trips that are in school time and are tied to the curriculum are open to all and some funding is available to help families who need it.

It’s immoral for the school to do that. And I’m usually very supportive to schools, even biased. There’s zero reason for them to push such an expensive trip and yes yes yes you can deny. But it absolutely WILL make children sad if they can’t come. It’s a ridiculously expensive trip.

@Tyrozet
You’re absolutely right and it’s simply discriminatory if the school does that. It’s extremely divisive and yes, some people may not afford a £100 trip, but it’s much easier to fundraise/sponsor the children for £100 trip rather than £1500.

But it also gives large groups a chance to experience something they wouldn’t otherwise.

My nephew has just signed up for a foreign school holiday next year, his parents couldn’t possibly afford to pay for that for them all but they can manage it for him to go (and siblings a few years down the line)

You’re absolutely right and it’s simply discriminatory if the school does that.

It is not discriminatory to offer something that not everyone might not be able to afford. Don't be ridiculous. It's open to everyone who applies and the same criteria is used for all.

Maybe they should say the trip is only for people who earn under 20k? Or those who earn over 50k? That would be discriminatory.

That is expensive but not compulsory.

I could afford for my dc to go but not a family ski trip so in that case its not ridiculous and the only way that they'd get to go so its a good thing.

I would pay for dc to go and in summer have a uk holiday!

@nokidshere
I’m sorry, but a tiny proportion of the school intake can afford that. Those families can go on a trip in their own time/organise themselves.
It’s only makes sense to organise the trip where the majority could come and to collectively help those who can’t afford. Schools are not there to provide random expensive exotic opportunities for those who are lucky to afford it. No, they shouldn’t say the trip is for those earning more than a certain amount. It’s you who are being ridiculous here. Just like I said, I understand some people can’t afford even the cheapest trip but £1500? Are you kidding me right there? Funny thing is I CAN afford this trip, I just don’t see what’s the school’s business offering this kind of expensive trips. Please give me a local trip any time, camping or similar where my DD and DS could experience building relationships with most the pupils, not only those cash heavy. What a sad world.

I think the ski trip is such a minority that go, its doesnt matter to those who cant go. As in they dont stand out for not having the money.
I might be a bit biased because my son went as a young carer so got a big discount and there is no way we coud afford to go as a family and he misses on so many normal experiences. We struggle with going away at all due to his siblungs care needs.