Chancellor’s spring statement

[Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase]

AIBU to think that today we are about to be hugely disappointed by what Rishi says in his spring statement and just to realise just how out of touch he is with the grim reality that normal people (I.e. not millionaire politicians) in the Uk face?

My prediction is that he won’t back down on the 1.25% increase in NI contributions that he is making people pay from April. There will be a paltry reduction in fuel duty (maybe a few pence if we are lucky - but that will easily be cancelled out within a few days as prices increase to compensate). Maybe he will reduce the duty on champagne this time or some other gimmicky sweetener (wasn’t it Prosecco last time?). He might raise the threshold from which people have to start paying tax but for most working families that won’t make a jot of difference.

So it feels like we are sitting ducks and that as time goes by more and more people end up really struggling.

@EvilPea

*Then there is the environmental costs that building this eyesore is doing to the countryside... irreversible. Ever seen a motorway? HS2 will be a fraction of the size while providing twice the throughput.*

I’m not sure saying we’ve made worse environmental impact before, so let’s make more is an argument you can use.

The land they’ve acquired isn’t going back to the beautiful green belt it was. It’s not greenbelt anymore, it’s fucked, it’s a desolate wasteland that’s going to be turned into flats and houses. It’s going to cover more than a motorway would.

Have you actually seen the sites? The great big roads, the containers stacked, the 24/7 lights that make it like daylight?

I've just looked at Google Streetview to see if there is any precedent for your fears that the blot will last beyond the temporary building site infrastructure:

goo.gl/maps/wBSwMmtkDs7Ww9V66
If that view of HS1 15 years after completion is anything to go by, you've nothing to worry about. It's all very "green and pleasant land" as Blake might put it.

goo.gl/maps/nZTpezbbxZRWGQMR9
By the way, that gargantuan bit of road in this view is only one of the A2's two carriageways.

Did you know that Wordsworth was very opposed to the building of a railway line to Windermere (a line which passes through what is now the Lake District National Park)? He wrote a poem about it and sent a copy to Gladstone. It's now just as much a part of the scenery as the sheep.

I’m in Birmingham. I’m yet to find anyone here that wants this expensive monstrosity.
Try asking leading employers: www.ft.com/content/306f2f60-7c9b-11e9-81d2-f785092ab560

Unless those employers are going to pay their staff to use it, what they think isn’t all that relevant is it? Employers aren’t the ones using it, their employees will be the ones having to fork out for it.

And I’m yet to find any employees I know, of any company in Birmingham, who are desperate for it to be built

I think that it is quite likely that HSBC do send employees between its new head office in Birmingham and London (maybe even Manchester or Edinburgh too).

And I’m yet to find any employees I know, of any company in Birmingham, who are desperate for it to be built
How many have you asked? It's not a topic that often comes up in conversation for me so I've little idea what my acquaintances think.

I bet that they're quick enough to moan when they get caught up in congestion outside New Street.

admitting you read the daily mail is like admitting you never sat any exams at school
shhhhh!

And I’m yet to find any employees I know, of any company in Birmingham, who are desperate for it to be built
How many have you asked? It's not a topic that often comes up in conversation for me so I've little idea what my acquaintances think.

I’ve spoken to enough people to get the impression that none of them are keen on it.

And when you do wildlife photography as a hobby and spend a lot of time at the nature reserves that HS2 is going to be running next to, funnily enough it does come up in conversation with the people you meet there, in addition to discussion boards on places like RSPB & Wildlife Trust websites/pages.

There’s also something called ‘the news’. It’s a question that’s been posed several times to people in Birmingham by local media. The general consensus is that it’s not welcomed.

Even a few responses on here show negative views towards it. You seem to be the only one who’s really batting hard for it.

If that view of HS1 15 years after completion is anything to go by, you've nothing to worry about. It's all very "green and pleasant land

That’s great for the residents of Hs1. But that’s not what’s happening to the parts of HS2 where I’ve spoken to people.

How many have you asked? It's not a topic that often comes up in conversation for me so I've little idea what my acquaintances think
For the past four years, it’s filled about 80% of conversations I’ve had in these areas.

Frankly I don't see why my taxes have gone on motorways, I never use them, they don't even go near me. What was wrong with the single-carriageway A roads we used to use? It's not even like they'll ever pay back their capital, given that (other than bits of the M6) you use them for free.[/sarcasm]

Yes lets compare something which covers large areas of the country which a large proportion of people have access to against something that only covers a relatively short distance and only benefits a small amount of people. Absolutely the same thing, except it isn't and you are deluded if you think HS2 is anything more than an expensive waste of precious funds.

@TimBoothseyes

Frankly I don't see why my taxes have gone on motorways, I never use them, they don't even go near me. What was wrong with the single-carriageway A roads we used to use? It's not even like they'll ever pay back their capital, given that (other than bits of the M6) you use them for free.[/sarcasm]

Yes lets compare something which covers large areas of the country which a large proportion of people have access to against something that only covers a relatively short distance and only benefits a small amount of people. Absolutely the same thing, except it isn't and you are deluded if you think HS2 is anything more than an expensive waste of precious funds.

Indeed. There are also lots of people set to have a worse railway system due to HS2. At the moment, there are direct/fast trains to London from places like Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, etc. Under the HS2 proposals, such people will either have to use slower trains that stop in more places or change to the HS2 trains at Preston - the fact they have to change means the overall journey will be longer! It's all because they want the LondonScotland trains to be faster so the stops at smaller stations North of Preston are being sacrificed.

@DdraigGoch

I think that it is quite likely that HSBC do send employees between its new head office in Birmingham and London (maybe even Manchester or Edinburgh too).

And I’m yet to find any employees I know, of any company in Birmingham, who are desperate for it to be built
How many have you asked? It's not a topic that often comes up in conversation for me so I've little idea what my acquaintances think.

I bet that they're quick enough to moan when they get caught up in congestion outside New Street.

I suspect you support HS2 because its a tory policy, thats all, if Labour were in and building it, you'd be vehemently opposed?

Maybe you cheered when Boris said he'd stop LHR expansion but now you back it?

This country is small, it needs more, better, less congested and most importantly, cheaper railways, saving a few minutes here or there is irrelevant to most commuters, we have the most congested and expensive railways in europe :(

If HS2 delivered that, then sure but it wont, in all likelihood will lead to greater road congestion as more development is built in places where it does stop.

It will prove to be a massive white elephant.

@Alexandra2001

I suspect you support HS2 because its a tory policy, thats all, if Labour were in and building it, you'd be vehemently opposed?

It's not a Tory policy. It started under Labour and there was a cross party agreement for it to not become a political football in the general elections. It was announced in January 2009!

Maybe you cheered when Boris said he'd stop LHR expansion but now you back it?

“I’ll lay down in front of the bull dozers”

Critical vote for it, Boris is unavailable to vote

@TimBoothseyes

Frankly I don't see why my taxes have gone on motorways, I never use them, they don't even go near me. What was wrong with the single-carriageway A roads we used to use? It's not even like they'll ever pay back their capital, given that (other than bits of the M6) you use them for free.[/sarcasm]

Yes lets compare something which covers large areas of the country which a large proportion of people have access to against something that only covers a relatively short distance and only benefits a small amount of people. Absolutely the same thing, except it isn't and you are deluded if you think HS2 is anything more than an expensive waste of precious funds.

HS2 benefits the same population as the M6 does.

Indeed. There are also lots of people set to have a worse railway system due to HS2. At the moment, there are direct/fast trains to London from places like Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, etc. Under the HS2 proposals, such people will either have to use slower trains that stop in more places or change to the HS2 trains at Preston - the fact they have to change means the overall journey will be longer! It's all because they want the LondonScotland trains to be faster so the stops at smaller stations North of Preston are being sacrificed.

Untrue, Lancaster will have an hourly direct London train on HS2, plus whatever gets retained on conventional routes. The Birmingham to Scotland HS2 service will continue to alternate between the two. God, it's like people arguing that we shouldn't build HS2 because it doesn't stop at Chipping Norton.

Just how many London-Oxenholme/Penrith passengers are there each hour? Anyone for Windermere would need to change anyway so it doesn't matter whether they change for one of the direct services that call at Preston, instead of waiting to change at Oxenholme.

[quote user1497207191]@Alexandra2001

I suspect you support HS2 because its a tory policy, thats all, if Labour were in and building it, you'd be vehemently opposed?

It's not a Tory policy. It started under Labour and there was a cross party agreement for it to not become a political football in the general elections. It was announced in January 2009![/quote]
Err once again need to remind folk who is in power... its going ahead under a Tory Govt = Tory policy, labour have no say in it.

IF Labour get into power in 2024, you can bet your last train ticket that Tory supporters will blame Labour for price over runs and be calling for it to be scrapped.

Bit like Bojo blaming Labour for not investing in renewables, despite the fact they have been in for 12 years....... its laughable people believe his crap.

@Alexandra2001

It started under Labour (2009). Yes, the Tories "could have" scrapped it, but billions of pounds had already been committed, and of course, it was a coalition government with Libdems until 2015 who also supported HS2. By 2015 when the Tories could have been argued to have been "free" to scrap it, tens of billions had already been committed. Basically, once it was given the go ahead back in 2009 (under Labour), there's no stopping it without monumental waste of money committed/spent. None of the 3 major parties have been against the building of HS2!

Only UKIP and the Green party are against HS2!!

I suspect you support HS2 because its a tory policy, thats all, if Labour were in and building it, you'd be vehemently opposed?

@Alexandra2001 now you're really showing your lack of knowledge, perhaps your should 'educate yourself', as they say. It was a Labour policy originally (and indeed still retains cross-party support), and I have supported it ever since the Brown administration first launched it in 2009.

Maybe you cheered when Boris said he'd stop LHR expansion but now you back it?

Certainly not, I oppose all airport expansion (including 'Boris Island' in the Thames) and would happily see Heathrow torn up to become a brownfield housing development (the site is after all very well connected and London certainly needs more housing). There are far too many flights being taken.

This country is small, it needs more, better, less congested and most importantly, cheaper railways, saving a few minutes here or there is irrelevant to most commuters, we have the most congested and expensive railways in europe
And what do all of the other European countries have? High speed rail. Despite your assertion that we are "a small country", HS2's line from London to Manchester will in fact be longer than LGV Atlantique, which the French saw fit to build as long ago as the 1980s. We do have a very congested infrastructure, and one of the major pinch-points is the WCML. HS2's main purpose is to relieve pressure on this congested line. And according to you lot, commuters don't exist anymore because of WFH so why does it matter if it's irrelevant to them when the line exists for long-distance leisure and business travel which actually form the most profitable market?

P.S. I also supported Andrew Adonis' (Labour minister under Brown) projects to electrify our railways (much overdue). I hold Chris Grayling (Conservative minister under May) in the deepest contempt for descoping some of those projects (in the longer term costing the taxpayer far more than the cutbacks saved). Shapps seems to be making a few of the right noises now but the Treasury are in charge at the moment and they're well known for seeing the cost of everything and the value of nothing.