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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think rejecting someone for job on the basis of their “strong Welsh accent” is disgusting and discriminatory?

198 replies

CounsellorTroi · 22/03/2022 17:45

I hope she gets bsomewhere with a discrimination case.

nation.cymru/news/cardiff-woman-who-posted-rejection-letter-blaming-her-strong-welsh-accent-offered-legal-help/

OP posts:
LakieLady · 25/03/2022 08:05

@hattie43

But if the accent is so strong she can't be understood how can that possibly work in an office or with customers .
But it isn't. I listened to her and could understand her perfectly well.

Imagine how awful it would be if employers only employed people with accents that were local to the workplace, or with RP accents.

AProperStinging · 25/03/2022 08:32

@LakieLady
She's a Labour party member, maybe that's it. But unless she's applying for a job with the Tory party, I can't see why it should be an issue.

No. It's because she works in Holocaust education. This has been discussed extensively on Twitter.

FoxyFoxyLoxy · 25/03/2022 08:39

What is WRONG with these people who can't understand accents other than their own?

I lived for a while in the SE of England and got it all the time. Oh we can't possibly understand Scottish people, they speak so fast and use weird words, and just don't talk like we do! (Apart from you of course, we can understand you, it's just all those other weird "Scotch" people) Hmm

It's so insular and closed-minded. And very common with people who never leave their home towns.

LakieLady · 25/03/2022 08:54

*Again, it's you who's being sneery and othering to call it "very heavily accented English".

Everyone has an accent. Not just Glaswegians and Indians. It's not the accent that is problematic, it's your husband's inability to understand it.

I expect you'd say my lower middle-class Home Counties English accent is less heavily accented than a Mumbai English or Gorbals English accent, but it isn't. It's all a question of perspective. Your perspective is that your accent is "normal" and everyone else's deviates more or less from it. That's where the prejudice comes from*

I agree. My accent is RP with a slight note of Croydon.

I listened to a programme on R4 about accents some years ago. The accent expert explained that people from Croydon have such an absence of local pronounciations that it is very distinctive, because it's almost a non-accent.

I love the variety and diversity of local regional accents. I'm fascinated by the fact that 2 Irish friends have markedly different accents, even though they grew up barely 20 miles from one another, and how my friend from the Wirral has an accent so different from that of my Liverpool-raised colleague. (I had 2 Liverpool colleagues at one time, and there was considerable variety between their accents. They attributed this to the fact that one supported Liverpool and the other, Everton. Grin I wondered if this was shorthand for differences in social class.)

I find it sad that SE accents, especially the Sussex and Hampshire ones, have all but died out (I know one person with a Sussex accent, and he's in his early 80s) and that many dialect words are falling into disuse. Soon, everyone east of the M3 will be speaking RP or "estuary English".

I think we should celebrate the richness of accent and dialect. And if people struggle to understand some of them, they probably need to listen better.

Frannyhy · 25/03/2022 08:56

I had a room mate from Wolverhampton years ago - she had a strong Brum accent. She applied for a job in London as a receptionist through an agency. The woman interviewing her said, “I can’t help you with that accent, we have prestigious clients.”

I have to be honest that her accent got on my tits, but there’s no way she deserved that.

FoxyFoxyLoxy · 25/03/2022 09:04

Also I can think of lots of people who hold down prominent roles on telly with a much stronger accent - Huw Edwards, Alex Jones on the One Show, the blond weather guy who does the drumming (Owen?).

That woman in the video does not have a strong Welsh accent. By any stretch of the imagination. The sound quality is not good though and there is interference.

There is a definite class bias thing going on here (isn't there always). If you don't speak like a member of the Royal Family or Helena Bonham Carter, you are inferior.

LakieLady · 25/03/2022 09:12

@FoxyFoxyLoxy

What is WRONG with these people who can't understand accents other than their own?

I lived for a while in the SE of England and got it all the time. Oh we can't possibly understand Scottish people, they speak so fast and use weird words, and just don't talk like we do! (Apart from you of course, we can understand you, it's just all those other weird "Scotch" people) Hmm

It's so insular and closed-minded. And very common with people who never leave their home towns.

I agree, and I think it's lazy, too. Some people aren't prepared to make the effort to attune their ear to different sounds.
CounsellorTroi · 25/03/2022 09:21

Also I can think of lots of people who hold down prominent roles on telly with a much stronger accent - Huw Edwards, Alex Jones on the One Show, the blond weather guy who does the drumming (Owen?).

And Rhod Gilbert is a successful enough comedian that I can’t imagine many people have trouble understanding him.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 25/03/2022 09:46

What is WRONG with these people who can't understand accents other than their own?

There can be a degree of racism in some. Growing up I was aware how "funny" some people thought it was to "not understand" some accents. With skin colour playing a part. Sadly.

MigsandTiggs · 25/03/2022 12:32

You've completely missed the point I was making, which is that if the company was recruiting for an RP speaker/teacher, then it is not discrimination if the person cannot meet what is an essential job requirement.

It's not unheard of for a TOEFL teacher to be able to teach different accents, but I would say that the ability to do so is a more specialised field (used eg by actors). When I lived overseas, I met several Asian families who only wanted their children to speak RP English because that was what was valued in their home country. Any company would be able to defend against a claim of racial discrimination by showing examples of Welsh people who are able to speak RP English.

MigsandTiggs · 25/03/2022 12:36

@AProperStinging

It was nothing to do with her accent.

Her 'regional activities' are to do with Holocaust education. She was rejected because of antisemitism.

It's all on twitter.

Oh dear, so she's the racist.
MasterBeth · 25/03/2022 12:39

@MigsandTiggs

You've completely missed the point I was making, which is that if the company was recruiting for an RP speaker/teacher, then it is not discrimination if the person cannot meet what is an essential job requirement.

It's not unheard of for a TOEFL teacher to be able to teach different accents, but I would say that the ability to do so is a more specialised field (used eg by actors). When I lived overseas, I met several Asian families who only wanted their children to speak RP English because that was what was valued in their home country. Any company would be able to defend against a claim of racial discrimination by showing examples of Welsh people who are able to speak RP English.

You do realise that almost no-one speaks RP? It's becoming a dead accent.
DGRossetti · 25/03/2022 12:46

You've completely missed the point I was making, which is that if the company was recruiting for an RP speaker/teacher, then it is not discrimination if the person cannot meet what is an essential job requirement.

Unless that's a proxy for "white, middle class" ...

MigsandTiggs · 25/03/2022 13:03

@DGRossetti, more like a proxy for "power and monied class". You would be surprised at what rich Asians value.

Crazykatie · 25/03/2022 13:10

It depends what the job is, if it’s tele sales, reception, or customer service being understood is a requirement, I work with a Glaswegian woman, she has to repeat most things, if only she tried to slow down but no attempt is made to make herself understood

MigsandTiggs · 25/03/2022 13:16

@Masterbeth, as you say, RP might be dying in the UK as it's now seen as desirable to speak with a regional accent. That's not the case overseas, as Cheryl Cole found out when she tried to launch a career in the US. I read an article that said many young people in the England now speak with a "multicultural youth accent". Vive la difference!

browneyes77 · 26/03/2022 08:57

@Frannyhy

I had a room mate from Wolverhampton years ago - she had a strong Brum accent. She applied for a job in London as a receptionist through an agency. The woman interviewing her said, “I can’t help you with that accent, we have prestigious clients.”

I have to be honest that her accent got on my tits, but there’s no way she deserved that.

Someone from Wolverhampton does not have a Brum accent. They have a Black Country accent.

Us Brummie’s do not like being referred to as Black Country and vice versa. We each have our own dialect and accents.

browneyes77 · 26/03/2022 09:05

@Puzzledandpissedoff It does seem like a REALLY stupid thing to do to be honest! So it could very well be fake!

Although if it is real, then the company really need to brush up on their recruitment practices!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/03/2022 10:37

Her 'regional activities' are to do with Holocaust education. She was rejected because of antisemitism

Hang on - I don't read Twitter and don't intend to start, but I thought she claimed to work against antisemitism?? Are there any references to this "rejection" that don't involve the Twitter snakepit?

And yes, browneyes, there do indeed to be increasing doubts around this, including the above

DGRossetti · 26/03/2022 10:47

Someone from Wolverhampton does not have a Brum accent. They have a Black Country accent.

Hence my comment about needing to put my yam-yam ears in sometimes Grin

When I moved to Brum, I bothered to pay attention. I can't say the same for everyone.

There's also the potteries accent, which starts as you move out of Walsall into Stoke land ....

And Coventry has a distinct softer edge too.

Going south you get Warwick, Worcester, and then either Gloucester or Oxford.

When I went to Uni I shared a house with a guy from Ballycastle (very) Northern Ireland. First time we met I thought he was Scottish. Which provoked a laugh, but he did say he could see Scotland from the coast where he lived.

He also was able to tell Catholic and Protestant from accent. Apparently "you just do" growing up there.

AProperStinging · 27/03/2022 09:41

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Her 'regional activities' are to do with Holocaust education. She was rejected because of antisemitism

Hang on - I don't read Twitter and don't intend to start, but I thought she claimed to work against antisemitism?? Are there any references to this "rejection" that don't involve the Twitter snakepit?

And yes, browneyes, there do indeed to be increasing doubts around this, including the above

She does work against antisemitism.

I mean she was rejected because the people recruiting her are antisemitic.

AProperStinging · 27/03/2022 09:45

@puzzledandpissedoff however, (a) I also have my doubts as to the authenticity of the whole thing, and (b) Am avoiding twitter too at the moment, so I can't be completely sureof any of it. Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't suggesting she was antisemitic (she is not Jewish either).

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/03/2022 10:54

Many nthanks for the clarification, @AProperStinging - I see what you mean now!!

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