To think this is poor from DS’ college?

[kzaurm]

DS has ADHD and ASD and mental health issues (anxiety and depression), he self harms and we are trying to get help for him. He has a 1:1 at his college as he was struggling a lot without it, the college also knows about his mental health but we all agreed for him to go in as his anxiety would be made worse by not attending as he wouldn't go out (this has happened previously when he was off school a few years ago due to anxiety) and also because DP works and I work a few days a week so there wouldn't be anyone to keep an eye on him.

DP called me and told me that he had a call from the college and asked him to pick him up, he was told that DS’s 1:1 teacher wasn't in and he had broken a ruler and when he was asked what he was going to do with it he replied that he didn't know. They sent him home as he was a danger to himself and they couldn't keep him safe.

Aibu to think this is poor? I know that the college has other students but we can't afford to miss work to keep an eye on DS everyday which is why him attending college is important

[quote Hercisback]@Imitatingdory You always pop up on these types of threads spouting rules and regulations with no appreciation for just how difficult things are in schools.

College can't magic up someone else to be a 1:1 with no notice. What would you have done differently?[/quote]
Schools can't get anyone to cover staff at the moment. It's a crisis. Nobody wants to do it. All the rules and guidance in the world can't change that.

What do the precious rules say when you have a child who has a one to one and that one to one isn't there and there is no replacement? What should they have done?

Lots of TA's and support staff are off sick with Covid in my area, so there may not have been anyone else to keep your ds safe on this occasion. Once he broke that ruler and said that he didn't know what he would have done with it, it was a good time to come home to safeguard him and the other students.
If there is no EHCP, the 1:1 arrangement is possibly informal anyway. Definitely apply for one.

Hercisback I do appreciate how difficult things in schools are! Nowhere have I said otherwise. However, there are no excuses for illegal exclusions. LAs, schools and colleges cannot cherry pick which aspects of the law they chose to adhere to. Being overstretched is not a legal excuse not to follow the law. Which is why I asked if OP’s DS had an EHCP, if the answer had been yes I would have said complain to the LA as it is them with ultimate responsibility for ensuring support SS pried and quantified in EHCPs is delivered.



College can't magic up someone else to be a 1:1 with no notice.

I never said they could. However, if the answer had been OP’s DS had an EHCP the LA are ultimately responsible for ensuring it is provided.

What would you have done differently?

Applied for an EHCNA well before now.

OnceuponaRainbow18 When I first posted I don’t not know OP’s DS did not have an EHCP. However, I would expect the college to follow the law, stick their exclusion policy, and have applied for an EHCNA before now.

What do you expect schools to do when they don't physically have the staff to keep OP's son safe?

Oh I don’t know, follow the law and their exclusion policy and have applied for an EHCNA well before now.

Correction to last post I did not know…

@LIZS Have you any idea what it's like trying to get cover at the moment?

If he doesn't have an EHCP in place, the college have already gone above and beyond to provide him a 1-1.

Their response was absolutely the right one. If they can't keep him safe there, then it isn't the right setting for him. If veiled threats to self-harm are the "normal" response to a change in routine for him, then a mainstream setting isn't the right place.

It sounds like you might be directing your fear and frustration in the wrong place.

Oh I don’t know, follow the law and their exclusion policy and have applied for an EHCNA well before now.

None of that actually helps today though.

You bat everything back to the LA, who, again, can ultimately do very little because they have no funding either.

I understand the point you are trying to make on a wider level and appreciate that by kicking back, the hope is eventually something will be done. But a lot of your posts come across as unnecessarily confrontational. They also leave hardworking staff that are trying their best feeling like shit (again).

It's a college, not a 1:1 child care service.
How many students do you expect to miss out on being educated in order that your son has 1:1 care? HIs 1:1 tutor was not there - it's not as if they chose to divert 1:1 tutors time to work on something else.

If the main college tutor goes off, they find a replacement. As they should with a 1:1. They have a legal obligation to provide the service to disabled people. Or do you agree disabled people should just be treated like second class citizens?

If he doesn't have an EHCP in place, the college have already gone above and beyond to provide him a 1-1.

No they haven’t, they made provision for a disabled person.

Not sure an EHCP would make any difference although you really should have applied for one a long time ago OP, when he was at home for years before? Were you never advised to? They go up to age 25.

My DS’s has a similar diagnosis to with a learning disability as well (and had a 1:1) and his mainstream college did exactly the same thing despite him having an EHCP. He used to scratch his hands (superficial) and if he so much as looked at a stapler or pencil sharpener, I’d be called to pick him up. They then said they couldn’t meet his needs and he has been without a placement since last June and at home all that time. The LA know they’re breaking the law but don’t care.

Nowhere else will take him now due to the self harming being on his record!

Your DS’s 1:1 is not a legal requirement without an EHCP so there’s not much you can do about it I don’t think.

What do you expect schools to do when they don't physically have the staff to keep OP's son safe?

Why is OP’s son’s education less important than that of the non disabled students?

If the main college tutor goes off, they find a replacement.

Not always they don't.

Getting supply staff is very tricky right now.

@BoredZelda

It’s not, but if a kid says they may harm themselves or others they can’t be at school/college.
OP needs to get an EHCP for her son, I’m surprised they are even giving a 1-1 without one, where’s that finding coming from?

Op I really do understand, I lost 2 jobs due having to fetch dd, similar diagnosis. The only reason I kept my last one was because it was 5 mins from her college and they didn't mind me having her with me (and she could play the piano downstairs which calmed her down (unusual in a job). Ultimately job isn't care so they can only do so much, do get the papers and reports etc in order because once they turn 18 it's hard if they haven't got paperwork.

My dd is a bit older having worked and studied locally, now is away at university and so far coping, she wasn't ready until mid 20's though

If the main college tutor goes off, they find a replacement.

My dd is doing three A levels so three teachers. This week she only has lessons for one as they other two teachers are off and they can't get any supply.

@BoredZelda

What do you expect schools to do when they don't physically have the staff to keep OP's son safe?

Why is OP’s son’s education less important than that of the non disabled students?

That didn't answer the question.

Hercisback None of that actually helps today though.

Yes, it does. If OP knew her DS’s rights, advocated for him and forced the college to follow the law and their own exclusion policy she may find they either changed their mind or formally exclude, which would provide her with evidence for when she applies for an EHCNA. I am not saying DC with additional needs should never be excluded, I am saying if schools or colleges are going to exclude they should follow due process and do it correctly. Illegal exclusion don’t help anyone.



You bat everything back to the LA, who, again, can ultimately do very little because they have no funding either.

Yet LAs have the money to spend £££ on defending indefensible cases against unrepresented parents. If only the public knew how much was wasted on this unnecessary expense. A lack of funding does not explain, nor excuse, LAs and schools acting unlawfully.



But a lot of your posts come across as unnecessarily confrontational. They also leave hardworking staff that are trying their best feeling like shit (again).

If you knew me in real life you wouldn’t consider me confrontational, it’s not something I have ever been called in real life even by the LA when dealing with 2 EHCPs. Wanting LAs and school to follow the law is not confrontational. Stating regulations is not confrontational, it’s factual. A lot of posts by posters who excuse LAs and schools acting unlawfully leave parents already at the end of their tether feeling shit, too, they also give the impression there’s no help for them, which, even if it isn’t easy, isn’t the case. Also, perhaps you should consider that parents of DC with ASD are also statistically more likely to have ASD themselves which can sometimes be perceived by others as being blunt, that doesn’t mean they are being confrontational.

What do you think the solution from college should have been OP?

A lack of funding does not explain, nor excuse, LAs and schools acting unlawfully.
It literally does. Schools can't meet EHCP requirements if they can't afford to. We have TAs off and cannot fill their positions. Not even funding can help when there are no actual people available.

Being a parent of a child with SEN is difficult and I know you have to fight for everything. Perhaps you aren't confrontational in real life but on here you are coming across that way. I have encountered you many times 'helpfully' posting legal information. Believe me, teachers already feel shit enough about being unable to meet your child's needs without you sticking the knife in.

@Imitatingdory

But OPs son doesn’t have an EHCP. They could easily say they can’t meet his needs if he’s deemed to be unsafe at school; but they seem to be trying hard to help him. I can’t name one kid in my huge school with a 1-1 without an EHCP.

He wasnt suspended illegally today.

Sorry but no OP YABU. If it’s further education not childcare he doesn’t have to be there and they don’t have to keep him there for you to work. They did the right thing, safeguarded the other students from someone snapping a ruler and potentially making a weapon.

Hercisback no it doesn’t. Funding does not explain a school illegally excluding rather than following formal exclusion protocol. A lack of funding would not be an excuse if the parent pursued provision specified and quantified in F not being provided.

It is a sad fact pupils whose parents know the law, can advocate for them and enforce their rights where necessary get better support. It shouldn’t be like that, support should be purely based on the needs of the child, but it is. Arguably it is the children of parents who can’t do this who need the support the most. Parents need to know the law and the system. I make no apologies for posting factual posts about the law to counteract posters excusing unlawful behaviour be LAs and schools, that is not confrontational, it is fact. That’s nothing against school staff themselves, and is not ”sticking the knife in”. I have/had a very good relationship with the schools my DC are/have been in. Neither have I claimed my DC’s needs aren’t being met, they are, they have excellent EHCPs. Your post come across as though you have a personal vendetta.

Onceuponarainbow I never said OP’s DS did have an EHCP, in my first post I asked whether he did or not, and when OP said he didn’t I said she should apply. Although not having one doesn’t mean the college don’t have to follow the law and their exclusion policy or that they shouldn’t have applied for an EHCNA long before now. None of us know if OP’s DS was excluded lawfully or illegally as OP hasn’t clarified whether the exclusion was formal or not. Even if they have a lawful reason to exclude unless they follow the formal, lawful process it is unlawful.

I think the college did the right thing.
Worst case scenario he hurt himself there without the agreed supervision. They felt they couldn’t keep him safe. Not sure what else they should have done.

Right so we have a student who needs a 1:1 for medical reasons. We cannot currently get anyone to cover. What should we as a school do?
Exclusion isn't the right thing in that scenario.
However it isn't safe for the child to be in school and the parents want them at home if no one trained is in school. Parents don't want an exclusion on record.

I'm going to bow out. You are correct on the points of law. You come across as rude, unsympathetic and with no idea quite how hard some people are working in schools right now.

You come across as rude, unsympathetic and with no idea quite how hard some people are working in schools right now.

There is no need for this. I have not been rude to you, nor have I been unsympathetic and I have said on this thread when you accused me previously of this I understand those difficult things are at the moment.

That is a different scenario. If the school genuinely can’t rearrange staff, nor get anyone to cover the LA should provide alternative arrangements for educating said child. Which does happen via medical needs tuition.