To have refused to take DD to A & E

[Polarbearstar]

‘Refused’ sounds more aggressive than it actually was, but DD has not really been quite right for a while now with a perforated ear drum, high temperatures, cold, streaming nose.

Doctor keeps saying to take to A and E and I am unclear what A and E can do that they can’t?

By telling you to go to A&E if further concerns, the GP has successfully “safety-netted”. Therefore, if something happens and you wish to complain, GP has medico-legally protected themselves.

@Polarbearstar

I will take her to A and E when there is an accident or an emergency, of course.

I think people are completely and deliberately misunderstanding.

The doctor did not look at her, gasp and say ‘A and E! Now!’

The doctor looked at her, said what the condition was and diagnosed some antibiotics but said that in future to go to A and E with her, ie for routine childhood illnesses, not life threatening emergencies or things that clearly can’t be dealt with at the GP (ie broken bone.)

It would seem no one else has any idea either.

Infections can cause sepsis. In kids sepsis doesn’t always present in high temps (as low as 37 sometimes) & so they often don’t get diagnosed until it’s far too late. That’s why GPs advise parents to go to A&E if infection doesn’t seem to be responding to antibiotics.

OP, you sound like one of these people who is 'always right' so I"m not sure what the point of your post is.

You're ignoring professional healthcare advice, but then agree with random strangers on the Internet that there is no need to take your DD to A&E because that is what is most convenient for you.

I hope your daughter is OK. A perforated eardrum is no joke and may cause permanent hearing damage.

I ended up in a and e with a perforated ear drum last year. The pain was horrific. I am pretty horrified that you are not following your GP advice to be honest.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the GP meant that if she has a fever, a leaky ear and is in pain again and it's out of hours, go to a&e instead of waiting for a GP appointment the next day.. either that or she's trying to bypass referrals if it's a recurring issue.

I hope your dd starts to feel better soon!

Oh and to be clear going to A and E was the best way to get emergency ENT doctor to see me. Perfectly sensible approach as far as I could see.

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

OP, you sound like one of these people who is 'always right' so I"m not sure what the point of your post is.

You're ignoring professional healthcare advice, but then agree with random strangers on the Internet that there is no need to take your DD to A&E because that is what is most convenient for you.

I hope your daughter is OK. A perforated eardrum is no joke and may cause permanent hearing damage.

Completely agree, OP asked what A&E could do a GP couldn’t. Many of us have answered her question and tried to explain what GP could have meant. But OP isn’t taking on any information or advice and is stand offish. So yes, not sure what the point of the post is.

Because national guidelines & treatments protocols are that small children are taken in to A&E as their conditions can change very quickly.

I have to ask why you ‘need to know’ before you follow important advice, is this consistent with other situations in your life?

‘If there are safeguarding follow ups (there won’t be) I’m happy to justify my point but what I’m really about here is trying to understand why we are being sent to A and E.’ - this is quite disconcerting, that you are equivocating about advice given to you by the GP.

OP, many posters see the point of taking a child to A&E & they are being gentle with you.

YABU if this were your own health & even more so as your child is just 16mo.

tried to explain what the GP meant

@ChloeHel do you not think it is the height of arrogance to decide that I am too stupid to understand what someone says?

And when medics on the thread have confirmed this can and does happen?

I am not seeking advice on whether or not I should take DD to A and E. as it turns out the thread has been extremely helpful as I have a decisive course of action.

I have been really patient but I am getting a bit annoyed now.

@Polarbearstar

tried to explain what the GP meant

@ChloeHel do you not think it is the height of arrogance to decide that I am too stupid to understand what someone says?

And when medics on the thread have confirmed this can and does happen?

I am not seeking advice on whether or not I should take DD to A and E. as it turns out the thread has been extremely helpful as I have a decisive course of action.

I have been really patient but I am getting a bit annoyed now.

Nothing to with stupidity but interpretation.

Again, not once did I mention advice on whether you should take DD to A&E. You asked what A&E could do that a GP could not and you have had numerous answers to that question. Which was the point to the OP.

My 7 month daughter had what I thought was an ear infection, she was t GPs twice and that same night I took her to A&E at 1.30 am she was crying in a tone that really worried me. She had a blood test and when they came back 45 mins later, her white cells were sky high, she was in hospital for a week with antibiotics in vein. You do not play God with this subject.

I think the thread is best left, tbh, but I will say one last time that the GP did not want or expect me to take DD to a and e now.

I was told with no misunderstandings or misinterpretations that if she is unwell again, to take her to A and E.

Not ‘if I can’t get a GP appointment.’

Not ‘if her condition worsens’

Not ‘if it’s out of hours.’

And other medics have confirmed this is a thing.

@Polarbearstar

I will take her to A and E when there is an accident or an emergency, of course.

I think people are completely and deliberately misunderstanding.

The doctor did not look at her, gasp and say ‘A and E! Now!’

The doctor looked at her, said what the condition was and diagnosed some antibiotics but said that in future to go to A and E with her, ie for routine childhood illnesses, not life threatening emergencies or things that clearly can’t be dealt with at the GP (ie broken bone.)

It would seem no one else has any idea either.

I understand what you are trying to say. No one will take the time to do a proper assessment.

My adult DD was in serious pain - was on a cocktail of ABs and Pain killers. When she went back to the GP as the pain was getting worse without seeing her, telephone consult, he said "If it continues to get worse, go to A&E". Of course, it was on a Sunday that it got really bad, she was vomiting - had to get a taxi to hospital as unable to drive. A&E said "go to your GP tomorrow" - no tests or scans done, no advice given.

The next day, Monday, I paid for her to see a consultant privately, she had a consult that same evening, then diagnosis, and appropriate treatment, within two weeks. Luckily for her she had a mother who had the resources to do that.

The buck is being passed. continually.
The NHS is broken. They broke it.

GPS make a lot of inappropriate referrals onto ED.

There'd a number of reasons for this. They want to skip waiting lists. They don't want to have to make an appropriate referral, they want to transfer the responsibility to ED. They can't be bothered to treat the patient appropriately

To me it sounds like the GP is washing their hands of you. They haven't given you any appropriate instructions for when would be appropriate for Ed, when you should worry. They were not happy to prescribe antibiotics today

If the GP thinks you need ent care through Ed they should call the ent on call. If the GP thinks you need ED They should tell you why for example - you may need IV antibiotics, you need a blood test, you need specialist treatment. They should also give you an indication of when would be appropriate e.g. if their temperature is spiking above 38 and can't be bought down with paracetamol

Just go to A&E if it happens again is not appropriate management

@Polarbearstar

No, it’s not a wind up, I’m hoping someone can help me understand.

To be clear, she hasn’t looked at her and said ‘she must go to a and e now’, she has said that in future when her temp goes up or her ear leaks to go to a and e, but a and e say the same as the GP.

If there are safeguarding follow ups (there won’t be) I’m happy to justify my point but what I’m really about here is trying to understand why we are being sent to A and E.

Does it matter? Just take your kid, Jesus christ. Ask the questions later. Ask A&E why the gp sent you.

You haven’t left this thread for 3 solid hours
You would have likely been seen by now, given age of your child

I was in a similar situation fifteen years ago and so glad we went to A&E despite the GP being a bit vague about why and when. I understand your wish not to sit around for a few hours but it's been over three hours since you initially posted and that time could have been better spend, and would have reduced any potential risk to your child. I have always taken the stance of "just do it" when it comes to children's health. Fingers crossed it is nothing serious but if it is, the hospital can access tests and speedy results that your GP cannot.

I think i get your point, @Polarbearstar

Accident and Emergency implies that something serious has just happened, not a lingering issue that isn't resolving itself and requires further investigation.

Why then wouldn't OP be referred by the GP for an appointment with a hospital paediatrician or otherwise relevant specialist?

Why on one day is the GP seemingly happy to monitor and see how it goes, but the next time it happens, sending OP to seek urgent medical attention?

It's as though she is being told that the only route to a more specialist level of healthcare is via an Accident and Emergency department, taking up space for people who have been injured or need dealing with right away.

Hmm, although obviously ear infections can travel to the brain. I just don't think I'd make a fuss about who should be providing what care. I'd just go to the hospital and get it sorted.

In the 3 hours you've been posting, could you not have picked up the phone to double check what she meant? No one on here can tell you what the correct advice was.

I get where your coming from OP. The GP should be able to see your daughter and offer advice/medication, if they feel she needs to go to hospital they should able to book her into ENT rather than going through A&E. People on here are jumping on you for not wanting to take her to A&E but I’m sure you will if the GP won’t see her. It’s just frustrating that you have to go sit in A&E for hours waiting to be seen, it’s no fun with a toddler, I have done it many times only to be given antibiotic which the GP couple have prescribed.

If the GP is saying to go to A&E and refusing to see her then I think you have no choice it to go.

@scootalucy

Hmm, although obviously ear infections can travel to the brain. I just don't think I'd make a fuss about who should be providing what care. I'd just go to the hospital and get it sorted.

So then why didn't the GP do their job a refer her ENT at the hospital?

Why is she being sent to A&E as though it's a catch all? To potentially sit for hours with a small child, last on the list becuse there is no accident or emergency in the true sense of the word?

@implantreplace

You haven’t left this thread for 3 solid hours You would have likely been seen by now, given age of your child

Did you read OP’s earlier post where she says they spent hours in a&e and were seen in the early hours?

I’ve read all your responses and it does sound like a bizarre situation.

When you have gone to A&E in the past, I get the impression from your post, it was for other reasons and you were rightly told to get treatment from the gp or treat at home so they could move on to treating other possibly more serious cases.

I say rightly because presumably you did go to go or pharmacy and things were fine.

Think A&E sounds like it is working correctly.

With your GP, there seems to be three possibilities:

Your GP is rubbish and is palming you off or

You miss understood (I know you don’t want to hear this) and she ment next time if baby has such serious symptoms go to A&E and don’t wait around for an appointment or maybe if the antibiotics don’t work go to A&E or

You are banned from the practice and that is why they won’t see you?

Hope your DD feels better soon

@Polarbearstar

I will take her to A and E when there is an accident or an emergency, of course.

I think people are completely and deliberately misunderstanding.

The doctor did not look at her, gasp and say ‘A and E! Now!’

The doctor looked at her, said what the condition was and diagnosed some antibiotics but said that in future to go to A and E with her, ie for routine childhood illnesses, not life threatening emergencies or things that clearly can’t be dealt with at the GP (ie broken bone.)

It would seem no one else has any idea either.

I understand where you are coming from. The GP should have told you why . OR if he wants different tests given you a referral to ENT .