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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have refused to take DD to A & E

269 replies

Polarbearstar · 21/03/2022 12:16

‘Refused’ sounds more aggressive than it actually was, but DD has not really been quite right for a while now with a perforated ear drum, high temperatures, cold, streaming nose.

Doctor keeps saying to take to A and E and I am unclear what A and E can do that they can’t?

OP posts:
Thatswhyimacat · 21/03/2022 14:03

I don't know if it is perhaps, this one infection can probably be dealt with by GP and antibiotics but if it is coming back it suggests something more serious that the GP won't be able to treat? Like how if I got a wound and the GP gave me antibiotics, they'd tell you to go to A&E if it suddenly got worse.

Polarbearstar · 21/03/2022 14:03

Doctors don’t recommend A&E unless necessary

Except it has been confirmed on this very thread that they do.

The fact that you are refusing to take her is ridiculous and irresponsible

Have you read the thread?

OP posts:
Calennig · 21/03/2022 14:07

because you cant be bothered sitting in A&E for a few hours

Few weeks agao for my family it was an 11 hour wait.

My family members had exhausted all other options and district nurses (seen for other reasons) and 111 were insisting it needed seeing to but A&E was only option.

I don't blame the OP for seeing if there is another option - she's not ignoring the problem but trying to access appropiate care including looking at private health care in her area.

lljkk · 21/03/2022 14:08

I hope your DD feels much better soon -- actually, I hope the ear infection clears up completely and never recurs.

I have No idea why GP gave that advice. I would have zero faith in anything happening in A&E that was better than what GPs can do. Only thought I have is... Just how many times has your DD seen a GP about an ear infection?

ChampagneLassie · 21/03/2022 14:08

I'm amazed by how often friends are sent to A&E with DC - literally everyone I know with small children has been multiple times - whereas none of us adults ever went as children. I suspect Drs don't want to be blamed if something is worse so cover their backsides by saying go to A&E.

Edwina83 · 21/03/2022 14:08

I taught a boy who was partially deaf due to untreated ear infections. He was on the social services register for this reason.

ChampagneLassie · 21/03/2022 14:10

I've also gone to A&E myself and been told to go back to my GP - GP's definitely do unnecessarily send people to A&E. The NHS is in absolute dire straits at the moment. Sorry so many people are suggesting you are in some way negligent @Polarbearstar

Wannago · 21/03/2022 14:10

I think that part of the problem is that GPs say to go to A&E in three circumstances:
a) it is a emergency that they can diagnose, and it needs urgent treatment;
b) they have some concerns and know that A&E can do further tests that they cannot do, which could be helpful; or
c) they are out of their depth, and want to kick it higher up the chain, so nobody can accuse them of negligence.

The reason I know a lot about c) is because I have a very special needs child. Which is why, if a GP said to me about my normal children, you should go to A&E, I would most likely follow their advice. But I don't necessarily for my special needs child, as I can practically guarantee that I will be told to take him to A&E, in any circumstances, because his underlying condition is just too scary for any GP (the best you will get is they will ask me what I think). I therefore have learnt only to use the GP for him when I need something (like antibiotics). For my normal children, getting antibiotics is like pulling blood from a stone. For my special needs child, I have been offered antibiotics at the drop of a hat (including various situations where it is left to my discretion as to whether I should start them or not).

We had various similar incidents with one of the school nurses at his primary school. Always rushing him off to A&E as that was the safe thing to do and they didn't want ultimate responsibility. Meant that hours and hours of our time was spent running through his medical history with clueless registrars, who had never seen anything like him, in order to haul him out of there.
I that has meant that I have spent many many hours explaining to health professionals (and yes, safeguarding panels at one point) that given that he has a life limiting condition, there has to be a balance between his quality of life and his medical care. And while it would indeed be safer if he lived constantly in A&E, so that if he had a medical emergency somebody could just push a button and the best medical treatment could be offered, that outcome is truly awful for his quality of life. But yes, at least once I was reported to safeguarding by a paramedic who insisted on taking him to A&E when I told him that what he was seeing happened just about every month, and that A&E was not necessary, as he would recover on his own (I think paramedic couldn't take the fact that I laughed when he said he needed to go in on the blues and straight into resuss). Of course the flipside of this was that his care is and was so, so expensive, that nobody actually could face the cost of taking him away, as there was no way he could be fostered (parents are allowed to be on duty 24/7, but you can't place a child like that in foster care), so there was a bit of a dilemma there (and then when he turned 18, which nobody predicted would happen, we had a huge fight to actually find somewhere that was able to care for him as an adult). And the proof is somewhat in the pudding, in that he has now well and truly outlived his life expectancy, despite my thwarting his going to A&E on a regular basis (sometimes we did indeed take him, and sometimes we had to accept that school would send him, because it was just too scary for them, and that then the registrar would admit him, and it would then take days to get him out again). And of course we did take him regularly when he was very small (DH used to say that he had the frequent flier ticket into A&E) before we built up the level of expertise, by being his parents and watching him constantly, of deciding that his best interest was not always served by going.

So I certainly agree that medical professionals out there sometimes use A&E as a way of deflecting responsibility, or when they are out of their depth, and that a parent may sometimes know better, and that A&E is a horrible environment to take a sick child. On the other hand 16 months is not very old, and once is not very often in the scheme of things. From somebody who has spent months of their life in A&E with their child, often waiting until the early hours of the morning to be discharged or for a bed to become available for my child, two or three horrible nights is really not very often. If we were talking about five, 10 or twenty trips, and it was the same result, I think it would be more reasonable to think again.

Polarbearstar · 21/03/2022 14:13

@Edwina83 if social services want to investigate a child who is taken to the GP then taken to a private healthcare provider instead of waiting to see if the ear continues leaking and then going to A and E then they are most welcome to do that. I feel that they would perhaps be better actually helping children, though.

OP posts:
skodadoda · 21/03/2022 14:20

@CremeEggThief

OP what is the point in your post? You've clearly decided you're going to do what you want/think is best anyway. Do you just want to annoy people with your bad attitude?Hmm

YABU

The point of OP’s post is that she’s being sent round in circles and her GP has told her to take DD to A&E next time she’s unwell. It sounds ridiculous.
Papayamya · 21/03/2022 14:21

Doctor keeps saying to take to A and E and I am unclear what A and E can do that they can’t?

It's quite obvious what a hospital setting can do in terms of having access to more specialist knowledge/staff and the ability to run more tests I'd have thought. The unhelpful bit is going to A&E, if the GP can't get to the bottom of something they should refer on- either directly to the children ward or for an outpatients appointment. I'm not saying you are lying but is there a chance you misunderstood what they were saying? Also if poorly on a Sunday phone 111 who can book out of hours apps rather than sitting in A&E.

1willgetthere · 21/03/2022 14:22

I'm guessing the GP meant if its at the weekend take her to A & E rather than wait till Monday.

I would ask the GP for a referral to ENT, recurrent ear infections and burst ear drums aren't that common, she may need grommets fitted.

Teeturtle · 21/03/2022 14:22

I perfectly understand what you mean OP. If I go to the doctor with earache, headache, stomach pains, anything, I would not find “next time go to A&E” an acceptable answer. If I need further tests that the GP cannot do, then I expect to be referred for the further tests I need.

I would not understand why I was being told to go to A&E next time and would also question it. I think some people have comprehension issues.

Polarbearstar · 21/03/2022 14:27

I think the problem is a lot of people think that if I go to A and E, they will treat DD. They won’t. They’ll tell us to see our GP.

I also think people seem to think I misunderstood what the GP said, and I know that I did not.

OP posts:
ittakes2 · 21/03/2022 14:29

GPS are paediatricians - A&E has peds doctors but they should really refer you just to peds. Our local peds department once told me to ring 111 and say I was not happy with gp service and ask 111 to refer me to the peds department so you could try that .

Papayamya · 21/03/2022 14:30

Ask to see a different doctor and if they say they cannot help ask where they are going going refer you to in that case. If they don't then write to the practice manager and say you feel the care your child has received has not been sufficient.

Guineapigssweak · 21/03/2022 14:31

Sometimes if possible it's better to just go private and get proper help straight away. Your GP isn't much help.

LittleDiaries · 21/03/2022 14:34

DD used to get repeated ear infections from when she was a baby, with regular burst ear drums. We always saw our GP, who prescribed antibiotics and calpol, and never said anything about going to A&E about it. She would have fevers and vomiting until the fluid build up drained out of her ear. She would be in terrible pain with it. Our GP said she would grow out of it, and she did, around age 5/6. We did have one referral to audiology when it was suspected she had glue ear, and might need gromits, but she didn't need them in the end. She's nearly 16 now, with perfect hearing, and not had an ear infection or ear ache for a very long time.

I suppose it depends on the GP surgery and how close you are to an A&E. We were over an hour's drive from A&E so perhaps our surgery was more willing to deal with things there, to save the journey.

BoldMove · 21/03/2022 14:40

Haven't read this long thread OP but seems like the GP is ssying they can't di anymore so go to a n e if it continues? Is it worth trying 111 maybe? Hooe your dd is better soon.

catlady3 · 21/03/2022 14:40

I get where you're coming from, OP. I'm not English, maybe that has something to do with it, but I found the NHS just an absolutely baffling institution. And a mirage at times. Anyway.

Two thoughts, a) can you ring the GP and ask for clarification. Say you want to make sure you can tell A & E what exactly it is that you're there for. Have the GP tell you exactly why they are sending you, what you're supposed to tell A & E to do, and what the expected outcome is. Write this down and take it to A & E. b) Consider ringing 111 as an intermediate step? Top tip, don't ring them when your baby is asleep as they'll make you wake them. (I've been hung up on by 111 in an urgent but not life threatening situation because I refused to wake up my baby who had finally managed to calm down sufficiently to fall asleep, which was what enabled me to place a call, which btw uses speech recognition to navigate the menu, and I challenge anyone to get that accomplished with a screaming baby in their arms.)

titchy · 21/03/2022 14:42

c) they are out of their depth, and want to kick it higher up the chain, so nobody can accuse them of negligence.

If the GP is out of their depth or cannot treat any further, the correct route would be a referral to a specialist. Not 'Go to A&E'.

londonrach · 21/03/2022 14:42

Yabu. If gp says your child needs to go to a and e you go to a and e

Inastatus · 21/03/2022 14:47

Ask your GP to refer you to an ENT consultant. My DS had repeated infections which GP always prescribed amoxicillin for. They would clear it for a couple of weeks and then he would get another one. It was heartbreaking seeing him in so much pain. We ended up going private as we had medical insurance back then. The first thing the consultant did was swab his ear to find out what bug was causing the infection. Turns out amoxicillin was completely useless against it which is why it kept coming back. Got the right meds, then later had grommets inserted to clear his glue ear. He had to have a bit of speech therapy because his hearing had been affected. Please push for a referral.

iolaus · 21/03/2022 14:48

I suspect from what you say about her having a high temperature last night so you took her this morning, what he's meaning is 'if she is that unwell at the weekend don't wait until the GP opens, seek help there and then, even if that means going to A&E'

Polarbearstar · 21/03/2022 14:51

No, I think I have thoroughly clarified what the GP meant.

OP posts:
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