To what extent would you say the UK is a racist country?

[VladmirsPoutine]

Bear with me on this. This thread is a culmination of some of the other threads I've been on and don't wish to derail. But thinking about for example ChildQ and the extent to which what happened to her was racially motivated, considering say the treatment of MM in the press which had a private school girl ostensibly painted as being 'straigh outta the hood'. I know that the UK is highlighted as one of the most racially tolerant places in the world, if not Europe. But just on the face of it I wonder, do you think the UK has a 'race problem'?

@CMZ2018

Probably the most diverse county in the world.

But undeniably still run by white people (men) in their own interests.

@CremeEggThief

Indeed, L0st

"No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" springs to mind.

But Ireland, until recently anyway, was a much more overtly racist and xenophobic country than the UK.
Some of the things people have openly said to me in Ireland I have no experience of in the UK.
Even a couple of people in my own family have told me I'm not really Irish, as I wasn't born in Ireland. And they genuinely beloeve that.

I'd agree that blatant racist statements in Ireland until recently are shocking (but that has hugely changed in the last few years) but equally it doesn't negate that there is a level of anti-Irish racism in England even to this day.

I don't know as I haven't experienced living in other countries. Also, I am white. I think the only person who could answer this is someone who has lived in loads of places as an ethnic minority.

I have been the subject of prejudice as an English person with an English accent in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Unfortunately it exists everywhere to some extent. Can't help you with how England compares to the rest of the world, hope you get some interesting answers.

Of course it doesn't negate it, L0st.

But in my view the way Irish travellers have been treated in Ireland is one of the most shocking examples of discrimination against an ethnic group, and it is the most shameful thing about my country. I don't think they're treated well here either, by the way.

On a personal level, I have experienced a lot of hurtful slurs in Ireland that I haven't had in the UK, because people are aware of my full heritage, and as I said, I've even had hurtful comments and insinuations from my own family members.

I think one thing that we can all agree on is any type of prejuidice is wrong, harmful and hurtful and we should all work together to challenge it.

A friend is half-Indian and half-Maltese. Her husband's job has taken them to many different countries. She says that the UK is the least racist country that she has lived in.

Came on to say this. Racism comes in so many forms. White English capitalist supremacists literally thought the "bog dwellers" were a sub-class. Also they used to sell destitute white children as slaves to millowners 150 years ago. I've witnessed vile white on white racism in the south of Europe, against East Europeans. Germans treated Italian immigrants like scum. English people used to beat Welsh children at school if they were caught speaking Welsh. Met a white woman who suffered daily abuse while living in Trinidad. Asian people were driven out of Uganda in the 70s.

My opinion is that all these examples are racism and that none of them is acceptable. Why is my opinion not legitimate?

It's very racist.
Massive denial of everyday racism by people who insist that nothing short of putting a sheet on and burning a cross on someone's lawn is racist is a huge problem too.

I think we government just did an in depth report on this.
It said we're not racist.
So there you go, there's you answer, proper research and everything.

@sst1234

I think UK has a bigger problem with a middle class ‘white saviour syndrome’ than it does with racism. Try being a non- white person and telling a progressive white person that everything isn’t down to race. Watch the indignation. You may even be accused or being racist yourself, against your own race.

I agree. I’m white and grew up in a seaside town in the North of England. I didn’t meet a black person until I went to university. My “understanding” of “black” people and issues came from the news and so I immediately felt sorry for anyone black. I give an encouraging smile to any black person I walk past whereas I’m quite standoffish with white people. It is absolutely ridiculous. My DC go to quite a multi cultural primary school and I hope they see black skin in the same way as red hair: unusual and nothing more.

In answer to OP's original question, yes the UK is certainly institutionally racist at a very deep and disturbing level.

In a country like Britain though, which compared to e.g. the south and east of Europe does actually have a conversation about racism, I cannot understand why the Met police and the monarchy and Boris types still persist in positions of authority, other than that most of the rest of the population is also covertly racist and prefers those people telling them what to do.

My DC go to quite a multi cultural primary school and I hope they see black skin in the same way as red hair: unusual and nothing more.

You want your children to see black skin as unusual?

@WeDontTalkAboutBrunoNoNoNo

My DC go to quite a multi cultural primary school and I hope they see black skin in the same way as red hair: unusual and nothing more.

You want your children to see black skin as unusual?

It is! We live in the north. 1 out of 30 children in their class have black skin. 1 out of 30 children have red hair. It is unusual and that is all.

My DC go to quite a multi cultural primary school and I hope they see black skin in the same way as red hair: unusual and nothing more.

This is a strange thing to say. As someone who also grew up in a seaside town in the north.

The thing is... It is something more because those kids will face challenges because of that skin. It feels a bit like the "we teach our kids not to see colour" idea which then minimises the experience of those who experience colour based prejudice.

It is racist but I can’t think of many places that aren’t— we are living in Denmark— extremely racist I personally think- but they are far more ‘subtle’ about it -

However
Certain health conditions are more prevalent in particular races.
Saying that is all us too simplistic.
Proud of my dd though for correcting her teacher when saying they don’t see colour.

It is! We live in the north. 1 out of 30 children in their class have black skin. 1 out of 30 children have red hair. It is unusual and that is all.

Right. That is all. I'll keep quiet then.

I guess my experiences of being that one black child in a class of 30 and all that comes along with being categorised as "unusual" count for absolutely nothing because your statement is final.

I think it's quite racist to be honest. People claim not to be, but usually start their sentences with 'I'm not racist, but..'.

I think Britain has gone down hill in every aspect of life now. We allow politicians to bleed us dry, we get argumentative about stupid shit like gender and are actually teaching 4 year olds about that crap, and we are openly racist towards everyone.

People should actually follow their advice and be tolerant. Who gives a shit what someone thinks their gender is, what colour they are or who they love? Why does it actually matter? If it didn't matter, then we wouldn't need so many labels, we would actually just accept it and move on.

We are moving backwards in evolution, not forwards. Becoming more dumb by the minute.

I also think there’s more awareness.
If I wasn’t spat on or racist words shouted at me then that was a good day.

Nowadays society is more aware and those of us who are minority ethnic don’t accept the overt or subtle racism anymore.

No you can't be white and suffer racism.

Plenty of Jews are white and suffer very badly from racism.

Overall, the U.K. is one of the least racist large developed countries in the world, particularly in England’s highly diverse major cities. Children from Chinese, Hindu & Sikh backgrounds are already significantly out-performing white British children in our education system.

There is still more to do, obviously, and any incidence of racism is completely unacceptable, but we are making faster progress than most comparable countries, eg France, Italy, Spain.

@WeDontTalkAboutBrunoNoNoNo

It is! We live in the north. 1 out of 30 children in their class have black skin. 1 out of 30 children have red hair. It is unusual and that is all.

Right. That is all. I'll keep quiet then.

I guess my experiences of being that one black child in a class of 30 and all that comes along with being categorised as "unusual" count for absolutely nothing because your statement is final.

All I am saying is that to my DC, I hope skin colour is as interesting as hair colour and they make no judgment based on it. Unlike me who feels the need to treat black people extremely carefully for fear of being racist (something learnt from the media).

@VladmirsPoutine

I will say - as a mixed race but Black woman. That I personally prefer out and out racists than the 'white liberal' types. I also see that there is actually a lot of inter-minority racism than from the majority 'white' group.

I’m a little shocked by that (probably classed as white liberal here) can you explain why please?

Similarly, and really sorry if I sound like a gf, it’s a genuine question- I thought white people were supposed to use their privilege to support- but when we do we’re called ‘white saviours’ ?

I think that if you start conflating skin colour with hair colour then you’re in danger of not understanding the historical events that have underpinned racism for example apartheid. And how they continue to have that ripple effect to this day.

I may be wrong but that seems to be the case from the reading I do.

@L0stinCyberspace The points you're making are amazing and I'm not surprised you're already being shouted down. Same thing happened to me on a few other threads because I dare to put Irish people (aka my own) first. Mumsnet is extremely anti-Irish and anti-Catholic. They wouldn't get away with this if their hatred was aimed towards any other group.