Housing crisis

[lollipoprainbow]

Aibu to feel really angry about the housing situation in this country ?? I think it's terrible that tenants that privately rent only get 2 months to find somewhere else to live once issued with a section 21 surely in the current climate of a rental shortage it should be six months ?? I think it's awful that people can't get mortgages despite paying the same or less in rent each month. I think it's disgusting that 'affordable housing' is anything but for the normal low wage earning person. There is zero help for people working on a low wage. Sorry but I just need to vent, I want to complain but don't know who to !!

@Alexandra2001 you will find the majority of renters aren’t in a position to buy a house. Your DD may be an exception, but most don’t have the deposit or arent able to borrow what they need to buy a home. So more houses in the market won’t make a difference to them

@Fretfulmum we are renters in a position to buy a house but keep getting out bid/down valued too....

@spuddy56 of course there are renters that can buy but the majority unfortunately aren’t in that position

@Alexandra2001 - a countrywide survey isn’t conclusive. Generally government and academic surveys show majority of btl is with mortgages.

Might seem good to you if there’s less rental properties- not so good to those who are renting. Just because that doesn’t affect you doesn’t mean it’s ok. It’s providing homes not “profiting out of others misery”!

I’ve rented many times, I was perfectly happy to do so as it suited me then.

We do need more social housing but I definitely think private rentals should be part of the housing mix. It provides flexibility to work and study in other places- I rented out a place I owned in one part of the country and was a tenant in a flat in another place (as I had to move due to work).

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/775002/EPLS_main_report.pdf

@MidnightMeltdown - there is a shortage both of properties to rent and properties to buy. If the supply of housing is not increased there will continue to be a shortage.

There will not be any more property because ftb move out of a house the rent into a house they own as you claimed.

Some people need or want to rent. If there are even fewer properties to rent, they will be at a disadvantage. We need more properties to bring down house prices and rents. Fewer landlords will not help.

@Fretfulmum Most renters aren't in a position to buy because there are so few houses on the market that the ones which are actually available to buy are extremely expensive. If there were more houses on the market - say, because the big BTL landlords had been forced to sell - prices would go down and more people would be able to buy because they wouldn't need such a big deposit. It's basic supply and demand. Of course this is a short term solution, we'd also have to build a lot of new homes, but it would be a step in the right direction and we could hopefully stop this small minority of people gradually accumulating everyone else's money.

I realise some people find it comforting to believe that most private renters are just useless with money and just couldn't be trusted with a mortgage but it's not actually true. The reality is that when you earn £1600 a month after tax and rent on a very average 2 bed house is £800 a month it is next to impossible to save a deposit, even though once you have a mortgage you'll probably be paying about £400 a month on exactly the same house.

[quote Villagewaspbyke]@MidnightMeltdown - there is a shortage both of properties to rent and properties to buy. If the supply of housing is not increased there will continue to be a shortage.

There will not be any more property because ftb move out of a house the rent into a house they own as you claimed.

Some people need or want to rent. If there are even fewer properties to rent, they will be at a disadvantage. We need more properties to bring down house prices and rents. Fewer landlords will not help.[/quote]

I did not claim that there will be 'more property' if FTB moved out of rented properties. The number of properties is of course fixed.

What I'm saying is that your argument that, 'FTB take property away from renters', is total nonsense. FTB need to live somewhere regardless of whether the house is owned or rented. It's simply a change of ownership.

If FTB stayed in a rented house instead of buying, then this would have zero effect the number of properties available to renters, because as long as they are living in a house, then it is not available to other renters, regardless of whether it is rented or owned.

It’s providing homes not “profiting out of others misery”!

Oh give over! Stop pretending that landlords are providing some kind of charitable service 🤣🤣🤣

Landlords are not 'providing homes'. How many landlords have you seen building houses?

@raspberrymuffin the thing is most “big BTL landlords” won’t be forced to sell. They have accumulated properties many years ago and a property crash still won’t put them out of pocket. Their portfolios are worth millions.
The BTL LLs who own 1 or 2 properties are far more likely to sell if the government makes it even more undesirable for them to own second homes. These properties are likely to be hoovered up by the big portfolio LLs which FTBs will be competing with. These are the overseas investors- Chinese, Russian, etc, and the select few UK based ones.

@raspberrymuffin this is unlikely to push prices down as the big time LLs still will buy up the properties and rent them out at high prices.

Oh do keep up @Fretfulmum, we’re not allowing the Russians to spend their money here any more.

So if BTL start selling, good!

No not good!! If a btl landlord doesn't buy the property I'm renting soon I'll be out on my ear so it can go back onto the open market for a ftb to snap up.

@Villagewaspbyke Nationwide also say majority are cash.... Anecdotally, i know plenty of BTL landords, most are self employed and own 2 or 3 houses as they don't have pensions, none have mortgages, they couldn't get them if they tried.... thats an issue.

Anyway, i don't want less rental, i want more far more, with more secure tenancies, as in Europe.
So @lollipoprainbow cannot be thrown out of her house because the owner wishes to sell.

But the mix has to be skewed toward far more social housing, as we used to have, when we also had far less homelessness.

Housing needs to change from being an investment (for the relatively well off) to become an essential right for everyone.

@MidnightMeltdown - I didn’t say that ftb were taking property away from renters at any point. I was disagreeing with your claim that landlords are taking property away from ftb as the properties are occupied by their tenants.

I also never at any point claimed landlords were “providing some sort of charitable service”. I said they were providing homes. They are. For profit like all businesses. Same as house builders. Same as providers of food, electricity etc.

As I said I have been both a tenant and a landlord (indeed both at the same time at one point). I wanted to rent at a particular time and was glad decent property was available. Nothing wrong with renting whether being a landlord or tenant.

@Alexandra2001 - I posted a link to a government statistical report that’s probably a bit more reliable than a survey from an estate agent. The vast majority of people don’t have cash available to buy property outright and mortgage interest can still partially be deducted from tax payable.

I agree we need more rental properties- more to buy as well. Housing is a basic right but is also an industry in which people invest like every other basic right (food industry, etc etc). That’s not a bad thing as long as needs are met.

The issue in the uk is that failure to build enough for generations (primarily because the local authorities stopped building abs no one replaced them) means we have a huge shortage

@Villagewaspbyke

Of course they are taking homes away from FTB. Renters and FTB are not two separate groups. The vast majority of FTB will have been renters.

Landlords aren't creating any housing. The number of renters and the number of occupants remain the same. The only difference is that when a landlord buys, said occupants are paying rent instead of their own mortgage.

Granted, some renters will never own a home, but other renters turning into FTB doesn't alter the number of available rental properties per renter.

Landlords are not the same as house builders or food providers because they don't produce anything.

We are already seeing a lot of two bed flats being used by three people with one sleeping in the living room. I think we will see more inter generational housing with grandparents, parents and kids all under one roof. This is a consequence of the lack of house building and the huge increase in the UK population which has gone up from 50 million in 1950 to 67 million in 2022. This is a problem the private sector cannot fix, the government needs to step up and deal with it.

Landlords are not the same as house builders or food providers because they don't produce anything.

True, but they do take the financial risk when buying and letting out a property, and that provides a home for someone who can’t or doesn’t want to take the risk. It’s not like they contribute nothing.

I've read must of the thread.

But, I think we need to reconcile ourselves with a simple fact.

We have a Tory government. All too few care about or understand Proportional Representation. Thus we are where we are.

So, under this system; we are where we are. Which is 'okay' with the housing situation.

How many of us have lobbied our MPs?

Nah. We wring our hands. But at the end of the day, we are, apparently okay with the situation or otherwise we'd act more forcefully.

village "I also never at any point claimed landlords were “providing some sort of charitable service”. I said they were providing homes. They are. For profit like all businesses. Same as house builders. Same as providers of food, electricity etc."

No, not providing 'homes', providing 'housing'. Important distinction.

A home is where you settle in every way.

Not somewhere where you have exactly 60 days notice.

Bring on the landlords once tenants get decades of security. Until then.

Nope.

And yet where I live (naice bit of south east) almost everyone over 50 complains about any suggestion of building more homes.

It absolutely does my nut. When they were 25 we were building new homes and they could buy, but heaven forbid their kids might manage it.

@OfstedOffred

And yet where I live (naice bit of south east) almost everyone over 50 complains about any suggestion of building more homes.

It absolutely does my nut. When they were 25 we were building new homes and they could buy, but heaven forbid their kids might manage it.

I think if the stuff built now was actually decent: nice homes with proper gardens and local amenities etc, and not built over beautiful areas of countryside unnecessarily when there are so many undeveloped brownfield sites - people would not object. What they hate is sub-standard housing estates being built for profit of developers in completely unsuitable locations without those developers also funding or facilitating the establishment of the necessary infrastructure like roads, footpaths, schools, new doctor and dentist surgeries and shops, so that they are building actual communities of decent quality housing with the services required to serve it.

@Fordian

I've read must of the thread.

But, I think we need to reconcile ourselves with a simple fact.

We have a Tory government. All too few care about or understand Proportional Representation. Thus we are where we are.

So, under this system; we are where we are. Which is 'okay' with the housing situation.

How many of us have lobbied our MPs?

Nah. We wring our hands. But at the end of the day, we are, apparently okay with the situation or otherwise we'd act more forcefully.

Indeed. And if people wanted a better situation for the poorest in society, they would have voted the opposite way to the way they did in the last two UK referendums.

There has to be an element of mea culpa here, for those who voted for this shitshow that made everything much worse than it had to be. Everyone else will need to see some remorse.

I haven't heard any Political Party come up with a solution. What was Labour's plan that was in their manifesto at the last election? Likewise the Lib Dems and the Green Party.
The issue here is Deposits. Surely there has to be a way that Buyers could have their deposit topped up from a second source. It could be a form of peer to peer lending. There would have to be a guarantee for the person providing the loan and it would need to be governed by the FCA etc etc but I am sure there is a solution here. I have been saying this for years.

@mjf981

This is what happens when council houses are sold off. It’s a capitalist economy innit. Great if you’re already rich. Awful if you’re not. And the wealth gap grows ever wider.

I agree, so much council property has been sold over the years, which defeats the point, as it is very much needed, I know a council that are now buying properties back at market value, as they are so desperately needing the stock.

This is not the only problem though, many private ll, have decided to sell up, as they no longer get the tax incentives. Prices have risen so they can make more money buy selling. Also people selling wanting to break the chain are going into rented, so this is also putting a further strain on the limited supply. Rents are rising as the value of properties increase. Holiday let’s in coastal towns etc, the list goes on & on.