To not want neighbours coming in my garden?

[Hosta13]

I don't particularly like my neighbours. They have a lot of unruly children, and the family as a whole are generally quite loud and irritating. That said I'm happy to keep myself to myself, and accept noise is a fact of life when you live in a built up area and houses are only a few feet apart.

What I do object to is them intruding (for want of a better term), into my property. The children used to ride bikes on my driveway, I now keep my front gated locked. They also used to frequently climb over the 4ft fence between our properties into my back garden. I replaced it with a 6ft fence last year but have had suspicions they still enter my garden as things would be moved, or I'd hear a ball being kicked over but when I'd go outside to look there wasn't one there.

Today I was in the garden and found 4 of their balls that must've been kicked over earlier today which I threw back - I always do throw the balls back, although sometimes it might be a day or two as I don't go out in the garden every day, am at work, can't be bothered going out there if its raining etc. They very rarely knock to ask for the balls back and rely on me throwing them over but if they do ask I give them back straight away.

So about half an hour later I hear all the kids in the garden (its warm and sunny here today so I've got windows and doors open)whining to the parents about how their balls are in my garden, and can't dad just lift the fence panel again so they can retrieve them. There are 2 that it seems I missed, ones in a bush and another one in the far corner and despite having 10+ balls and the 4 I've chucked back, they need these ones. They've seen them from looking over the fence I assume, they have a climbing frame near the fence which they can see over into my garden from. So anyway dad kind of fobs them off ineffectually but its clear this is what they've done more than once for them to even suggest it. They're still going on about it an hour later and saying well we'll climb over her gate then and get them that way.

This isn't on is it? I wouldn't have dared go in someones garden when I was a child and there's no way my parents would have allowed it either. I'm now trying to work out how I can stop them lifting the panel, because clearly although they didn't do it today they have and I'm sure will again. It feels really intrusive and unpleasant.

They're not tiny BTW, ages range from 8-13.

[hookiewookie29]

That would drive me bloody mad!! I'm a childminder and if a ball goes over next doors fence, then it's gone until my neighbour throws it back!And I always apologise to her!
As for them lifting the fence panel- how bloody cheeky!! What if they damage your property too?
And all those saying that OP is being mean...really??Is it mean to want a bit if peace in your own garden? I'm sure you'd soon get peed off with going in and out several times a day just to throw balls back!!

[JustLyra]

I’m baffled by some of the responses on here

The OP threw 4 balls back. There was still one in the garden. Then 2 more came over.

If my kids put a ball into my neighbours garden 7 times in a week I’d be mortified - never mind in a day

No wonder she thinks it’s pointless talking to them. Anyone who thinks that’s ok behaviour is a waste of time to talk to, even before you read the posts about the kids ruling the roost.

That’s a family that have zero respect for their neighbour or property.

[suzyscat]

Plenty of story books Peter Rabbit, secret seven etc present trespass as part of childhood so it's highly possible they don't see this as a big of a deal as you do.

Despite the judgements you've made on their parenting and chaotic lifestyle, you have ultimately said they're fine, just too entitled and too lenient, so they're not aggressive so you could definitely just talk to them and fix your fence. If they have found a loose panel you can too, but honestly just talk to them.

Of course your entitled to your own space but if they haven't realised it's bothering you you're getting yourself increasingly upset whilst they're none the wiser and to you this is spiralling. It's possible they think they're saving you a job. You may be in the right, but you can't hope for them to change their behaviour if you're not prepared to communicate with them.

[Hosta13]

They're not nice people. Just because they don't swear, or get drunk or have loud parties or behave aggressively doesn't mean they are nice or have any interest in listening to anyone's pov.

I'd be wasting my breath engaging with them. And they absolutely don't think they are 'saving me a job' because why is it sometimes they knock within minutes of a ball coming over?

They're born again Christians, so me being a woman on my own probably flags me up either for scorn or pity, or maybe both. One good thing is that at least they've not tried to encourage me to let the lord into my life

[mathanxiety]

How do you know what sort of people they are, or that they are not interested in listening to anyone's pov?
You haven't tried specking to them

And what does being born again Christians have to do with the price of fish?
You have said that they also kick balls over their other fence, so I highly doubt they are targeting you because you're a single woman who doesn't fear God enough.

The complete lack of common sense, the unreasonable expectation that you will never be impacted by a neighbour's children even though you live mere feet away from each other, and the paranoia about neighbours out to get you for X or Y or Z reason would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

You think there is a 'deliberate element to it'?
You think there is such a thing as 'playing unnecessarily noisily'?

This is all so very sad.

[mathanxiety]

Or 'speaking' even...

[Hosta13]

I didn't come down in the last shower. I've lived here since well before they moved in. So I've had a fair time to see what they are like. I've not spoken to them on this issue. I have spoken to them previously as I've said upthread and from their response and general behaviour have formed a view.

I know how much noise typical children make. The previous occupants of the house had children whose noise wasn't intrusive. The children in the other neighbouring house, the one actually attached to mine, I rarely even hear. The noise made by this family is indicative of their utter disregard and lack of respect for anyone else.

I think that they are generally pretty rude and poor neighbours. I do also think there is an element of targeting me, for whatever reason. Their climbing frame is slapped up against my fence rather than their own fence. Ditto their basketball hoop. Hence why balls are constantly ending up in my garden, and as I discovered today why 2 of my fence panels (adjacent to the frame) are cracked and damaged as though someone has repeatedly leant against or stood on them.

I don't know about me lacking common sense, but I think it's more than a little naive to think certain people/ families don't direct their antisocial behaviours, of whatever type, at those they think are different, or an easy target. Of course they do.

[CecilyTheWake]

@mathanxiety

How do you know what sort of people they are, or that they are not interested in listening to anyone's pov?
You haven't tried specking to them

And what does being born again Christians have to do with the price of fish?
You have said that they also kick balls over their other fence, so I highly doubt they are targeting you because you're a single woman who doesn't fear God enough.

The complete lack of common sense, the unreasonable expectation that you will never be impacted by a neighbour's children even though you live mere feet away from each other, and the paranoia about neighbours out to get you for X or Y or Z reason would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

You think there is a 'deliberate element to it'?
You think there is such a thing as 'playing unnecessarily noisily'?

This is all so very sad.

But as someone who thinks that people should build a ladder and create kidflaps on their fences specifically so that entitled children can retrieve their balls and entitled parents can pretend they’re helping their neighbours, don’t you think you’re just a bit biased?

[WTF475878237NC]

The complete lack of common sense, the unreasonable expectation that you will never be impacted by a neighbour's children even though you live mere feet away from each other, and the paranoia about neighbours out to get you for X or Y or Z reason would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

^ I don't know what thread you're reading but this OP is having to deal with multiple balls in the garden every single day. This family don't give a shit obviously.

[KosherDill]

I get you, OP. Been there, still there.

Get a good sharp knife, stab every single ball and bin it. Play dumb if tgey ask. "Ball? What ball?"

Get those brackets installed on fence panels. Grey rock otherwise. Treat them as they do not exist.

You'll feel so much more empowered, trust me.

[mathanxiety]

Referring to a comment of mine from a previous thread, are we, @CecilyTheWake? Is this something that is encouraged on MN, or something that is considered not quite cricket?

I am consistent, not biased.

The OP lives in close proximity to neighbours and expects that neighbours' children will be seen but not heard. That's not reasonable.

She also insists that these particular neighbours have it in for her, citing the placement of their play equipment as part of the evidence. Also introduces the fact that they are born again Christians, for unknown reasons, and criticises the way they parent. There is no way she is ever going to talk to them even though they are neighbours. No, she will just sit there and seethe.

The answer to the problem of someone who is making up excuses to avoid being assertive and approaching the neighbours verbally is not to buy a sharp knife and destroy the toys of the children next door. This is not just because destroying other people's property is petty and undignified, and it's not just because they can always go out and buy more, and where does that leave her?

It's because assertiveness is a useful life skill in many other situations the OP is going to find herself dealing with until she can afford to move to a cottage in the western isles.

[Hosta13]

I don't lack assertiveness, but thanks for the patronising comment.

I'm intelligent enough to know when there is a point in conversing with someone, or when it will simply be a waste of breath. Any discussion with my neighbours falls firmly into the latter category.

I've not said the children should be silent. Please point me to where I said that. The noise they make is excessive. However I'm not complaining about the noise, as I made clear in my OP.

I've also at no point said anything about stabbing balls. I've been pretty clear that I throw them back over.

But it seems you have an agenda, and I'm clearly not going to be able to have a sensible discussion with someone who apparently thinks children should have unfettered access to neighbours property so they never have to wait to retrieve a ball (notwithstanding the obvious invasion of privacy and that they have 19 other balls to play with).

As to me moving, you could say the same of my neighbours, their garden clearly isn't big enough for their needs, otherwise they wouldn't be kicking or throwing balls over daily. Maybe they should move somewhere bigger?

[TheGreyWitch]

Y'all sound fully Grinch like. When I was a kid (I'm almost 25) there was a little old lady with no kids or grandkids open her garden up for all the kids on the street to play, her garden was HUGE, her house a converted barn yard.
I feel like I grew up in different times or even on a parallel universe going by this thread! Their kids!
Are they pulling your flower beds up? Ruining your grass?
I live on an estate with some unruly crotch goblins running feral, kids have broke bus windows round here (granted older teens mostly) and hang round in groups ect, there straight feral. However if there's on thing I can say for sure is they play outside my block on the grass I've seen those kids belt their balls. One thing they try their hardest NOT to do is hit windows. Which if fair that's the one rule my mum had with balls aswell "don't play too hard with the ball so it smashes windows, I'll have to pay for it".
Another thing is I dug up a flower bed to put some sunflowers and annuals down, not a single kid has picked or otherwise damaged the flowers.

Back when I was a kid as long as you didn't break windows you was absolutely fine to play with balls, I've never been shouted at nor have I been made to feel bad for being a kid! Like I say I must have been brought up on a different planet.

Oh I'll add with you did make sure the fence is 'your' fence before changing the hight right? You did ensure it was within your boundary? If not your going to have fun because your neighbors can literally tear that fence down and you can't say nothing!

[bemusedmoose]

it's absolutely not ok for people to go in your garden without asking! damn rude and trespass.

In my mind i would be implailing the bloody balls on spikes and displaying them like the Tudors did with their enemies! (obviously i wouldnt do that, well... nope, no i wouldnt).

I would nail the panels in place (you can attach thin pieces of wood between the concrete and the fence so it doesnt slide up anymore), put anti climb paint and those spiked anti climb strips on the top oh and some pyracanthus just to be sure.

I would never let my kids, let alone tell them to, jump over someones fence and get stuff back - you have to go and ask politely if they could either throw it back over or could you retrieve it yourself. Dont ask then it's lost for good. Surprisingly my kids havent managed to loose anything over the 4ft fence in 10 years.

[LakieLady]

@WTF475878237NC

The complete lack of common sense, the unreasonable expectation that you will never be impacted by a neighbour's children even though you live mere feet away from each other, and the paranoia about neighbours out to get you for X or Y or Z reason would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

^ I don't know what thread you're reading but this OP is having to deal with multiple balls in the garden every single day. This family don't give a shit obviously.

Not only multiple balls, but repeated incursions into her garden and damage to her fence.

I don't think it's in any way unreasonable to expect one's neighbours, children or adults, not to damage one's property or to enter it without permission. And I think that anyone who lets their children do this is bringing them up to be rude, entitled and disrespectful.

[bemusedmoose]

@mathanxiety

Referring to a comment of mine from a previous thread, are we, *@CecilyTheWake*? Is this something that is encouraged on MN, or something that is considered not quite cricket?

I am consistent, not biased.

The OP lives in close proximity to neighbours and expects that neighbours' children will be seen but not heard. That's not reasonable.

She also insists that these particular neighbours have it in for her, citing the placement of their play equipment as part of the evidence. Also introduces the fact that they are born again Christians, for unknown reasons, and criticises the way they parent. There is no way she is ever going to talk to them even though they are neighbours. No, she will just sit there and seethe.

The answer to the problem of someone who is making up excuses to avoid being assertive and approaching the neighbours verbally is not to buy a sharp knife and destroy the toys of the children next door. This is not just because destroying other people's property is petty and undignified, and it's not just because they can always go out and buy more, and where does that leave her?

It's because assertiveness is a useful life skill in many other situations the OP is going to find herself dealing with until she can afford to move to a cottage in the western isles.

she didnt say anything about being seen and not heard - quite the opposite - she doesnt mind hearing them, just doesnt want to keep seeing them in her garden which is perfectly reasonable. Why do they need to use their bikes in her drive and why are they being allowed? They wouldnt like it if she grabbed a lounger and just set up with a radio and a nice drink on their front garden.

If the neighbour hasnt invited you to use their space or told you to just hop over whenever then it is not ok and it's bloomin rude.

She has tried to speak to them before and it doesnt work, i have a similar family opposite and they behave as if they own the entire road and you cant talk to them because it starts a war, even when the park accross the road on purpose blocking anyone from getting in or out (cul-de-sac) if you ask them to move the bloke kicks off then the wife comes out.... because they can park where they like.

You cant just let kids go all over other peoples property. If it's a public space fine, but this isnt.

[Susu49]

@TheGreyWitch

Y'all sound fully Grinch like. When I was a kid (I'm almost 25) there was a little old lady with no kids or grandkids open her garden up for all the kids on the street to play, her garden was HUGE, her house a converted barn yard.
I feel like I grew up in different times or even on a parallel universe going by this thread! Their kids!
Are they pulling your flower beds up? Ruining your grass?
I live on an estate with some unruly crotch goblins running feral, kids have broke bus windows round here (granted older teens mostly) and hang round in groups ect, there straight feral. However if there's on thing I can say for sure is they play outside my block on the grass I've seen those kids belt their balls. One thing they try their hardest NOT to do is hit windows. Which if fair that's the one rule my mum had with balls aswell "don't play too hard with the ball so it smashes windows, I'll have to pay for it".
Another thing is I dug up a flower bed to put some sunflowers and annuals down, not a single kid has picked or otherwise damaged the flowers.

Back when I was a kid as long as you didn't break windows you was absolutely fine to play with balls, I've never been shouted at nor have I been made to feel bad for being a kid! Like I say I must have been brought up on a different planet.

Oh I'll add with you did make sure the fence is 'your' fence before changing the hight right? You did ensure it was within your boundary? If not your going to have fun because your neighbors can literally tear that fence down and you can't say nothing!

Is the view good up there?

[Hosta13]

The fence is definitely mine. I know that from when I bought the house, and I rechecked last year before replacing the fence. Hope that helps.

Heres an example of what they are like. I was doing some gardening today given the lovely weather. Eldest child (teenager) comes home from school, into garden, can hear me because I have the radio on (standard commercial station, nothing offensive and moderate volume). Hoofs the ball really hard against the fence (thankfully not the panel I'm adjacent to) BANG! and then goes indoors.

Now I'm sure I'll be told I'm paranoid or whatever, but that very much feels like a 'fuck you, how dare you make any noise in your own garden'. It won't stop me though :)

[SevenWaystoLeave]

@5thnonblonde

Hmm yes some well positioned cat shit along where they lift the panel might nip it in the bud

I was thinking some nice manure in the flowerbeds, or even just soak it so they get covered in mud.

[Windypants21]

I lived on my own. I asked my neighbour nicely to stop parking their car across my drive as I then had to go to their door to get out of my own drive. Apparently I was the one with the problem. In order to stop this behaviour I had to park my car outside my drive. I also tried to warn them about a possible application to build out the ba k of our houses which would have ruined our privacy and knocked down trees. I again was treated with disdain. I am sure it was something to do with being female and on my own.
Eventually I moved out and rented my house out as I was working elsewhere. My renters were a nightmare for me and my old neighbours. Funny how their attitude changed toward me when they were the ones being inconvenienced by other people's shitty behaviour.

[KosherDill]

@Hosta13

The fence is definitely mine. I know that from when I bought the house, and I rechecked last year before replacing the fence. Hope that helps.

Heres an example of what they are like. I was doing some gardening today given the lovely weather. Eldest child (teenager) comes home from school, into garden, can hear me because I have the radio on (standard commercial station, nothing offensive and moderate volume). Hoofs the ball really hard against the fence (thankfully not the panel I'm adjacent to) BANG! and then goes indoors.

Now I'm sure I'll be told I'm paranoid or whatever, but that very much feels like a 'fuck you, how dare you make any noise in your own garden'. It won't stop me though :)

I believe you, OP.

After I asked my oaf of a neighbor to please stop having his dog soil my front garden daily, he badmouthed me up & down the street and positioned a trampoline on the other side of my fence, near my lounge chairs. Any time i was out the kids were told to jump & scream on the tramp.

The longest I clocked was 4 hour 13 min

I absolutely guarantee if I were a man living alone here, that wouldn't happen.

[Harmonypuss]

I've only read the first page of replies so apologise if someone else had already said this....

I really feel for you because there used to be a gang of obnoxious oiks kids that tormented my family and played football in the cul-de-sac behind my house and I swear they thought my back garden was the goal, despite there being a row of garages between the street and our gardens.
The little brats darlings never came round and knocked the front door, to politely ask for their ball back, they would either climb over my back gate or over the top of the garages.

Eventually, I had to replace the gate because they broke it, so I had a good sturdy metal gate put in and the company who supplied/fitted it put anti-climb paint on the top and even along the edge of the garage roof that they came over. We put a sign on the gate (apparently a legal requirement) saying that the gate had been treated with the anti-climb paint and I added another to it saying that the garage roof had been treated with it too.

I also went across the road to see the mother of the ring leader and told her straight that if her little darling or his mates came over my gate or the garages to get into my garden again they would get the lovely black greasy stuff (that had been intentionally put there to prevent them from trespassing) all over their clothes and I was certain that she and the other mothers wouldn't appreciate their little angels' clothes being ruined, so she would do well to tell them all to stay away!

It worked for quite a while then I actually did stab the football and blame my dog.

Fortunately, not too much longer after this, they were all moved out of the area as past of a council regeneration project.

[mathanxiety]

she didnt say anything about being seen and not heard - quite the opposite - she doesnt mind hearing them, just doesnt want to keep seeing them in her garden which is perfectly reasonable...She has tried to speak to them before and it doesnt work

@bemusedmoose
No, she essentially wants them to stop playing football in their own garden. She doesn't like the noise of their voices. She doesn't like hearing them playing 'unnecessarily noisily' in their own garden.
I rarely go out there when they're in because of all the screaming and yelling, dog barking, ball banging

She even has some axe to grind about them all being born again Christians.

And she hasn't talked to them in a way that they have paid attention to.
I don't think talking to them is likely to achieve much, they clearly have no respect for me or my home and privacy.

There really isn't any point in talking to them. The dad isn't that bad on some levels, hes just completely ruled by his children. So even if I could speak to him reasonably (years ago I lent him some garden tools which he appreciated, his children were younger then) he just does what his kids say

I really don't want to speak to them. Honestly their attitude is that kids do as they please. It's not for me to help the father find his backbone. If he can't stop his kids kicking their balls over (and really the number indicates there is a deliberate element to it) now, me speaking to him will make zero difference. It is very clear they regard me as some lower form of life who isn't deserving of any respect. Me speaking to them won't so anything. In fact I suspect it may make it worse.

She has written them off. She prefers to fume in silence and demonise them. How dare they be born again Christians! With a dog who barks! The cheek of them.

When she secures the fence panel the children will hop over the top. She could decide to let them hop the fence and get their own balls once a day, and tell them that, but she has chosen a hill to die on instead of adopting a sensible response.

It's sad when you're burgled and the police are useless, but the invasion of her property that happened on those occasions was not the fault of these parents or their children. I would recommend some counseling to deal with the anxiety caused by the burglars, which is clearly affecting how she sees this family next door.

[Hosta13]

I don't have any anxiety. Are you a trained psychologist? I highly doubt it, so please don't give armchair diagnoses.

I don't want children or anyone coming into my back garden be it once a day once a week or once a month. My garden is my private space and I should be entitled to quiet enjoyment.

My neighbours are highly inconsiderate of others. They are noisy and I find the noise irritating. You've conveniently not quoted my previous post that responds to yours, but in it I clearly said that my other neighbours have children who make a 'normal' amount of child noise. They are not screaming, screeching or constantly thumping their ball against the fence BANG BANG BANG. Those other children are not standing on top of my fence either. It's only my neighbours children who insist on doing that.

For the sake of clarity, and as pp (and I) have mentioned, I did speak to the parents in the past, when their children were using my front and back gardens as their play space. Their attitude was kids will be kids (shrug), the mantra of lazy ineffectual parents everywhere. There is no point in me wasting breath on a further conversation when that will inevitably be the outcome.

I couldn't care less what religion they are, or if they are devil worshipping Satanists frankly. But they make a lot of how Christian and kind they are, which is entirely at odds with their failure to display an iota of kindness or consideration for their neighbours.