Struggling with a situation - Feeling really low

[MrsDWashington]

I have a 13 year old DD (Year 8 high school).

We've had a bit of a bullying situation were my DD was ostracised from her 'friendship group' and one of the girls got quite nasty posting stuff about her on social media etc to the point were one of them sent me a message calling my daughter all these awful names.

Now obviously we have gotten school involved etc and the situation seems to have resolved but these girls are no longer friends. My daughter was feeling pretty low and seeing someone at school for this.

But....I know some of the children in her year through family and friends etc and the general consensus which is being fed back to me is that she is extremely cocky, annoying, she acts like she's really tough, she says nasty things to people, she kicks the boys and tries to play fight with them all.

Now from all this feedback I've obviously spoken to her about being kind, treat people how you want to be treated etc but she's in full denial shes like that.

What do I do now in this situation? As obviously I do not want people to not like my daughter but quite a few people now have said the do not like her.

She is 13 turning 14 in 6 months and socialising at weekends, youth club etc is a big thing for them all and now she is left at home alone as nobody wants to hang around with her.

Its making me extremely sad and worried sick, I said when a few people are saying the same thing, you have to look at your part and if you are doing anything.

She used to have lots of people coming round and now she doesn't. We saw one girl in town and my DD commented on someone, this girl replied by saying see this is why people dont like you.

She isn't listening to my advice though even though I tell her, any advice I give her is because I love her and want her to be happy.

AIBU in thinking the reason her friends fell out with her initially is because she was not being very nice with them?

Its breaking my heart. No one wants to hear that the majority of people don’t like your child.

I think the school should be doing more to help resolve the situation. She needs just one person on her side and hopefully her behaviour will calm down.

I can see how this situation becomes all encompassing and is impacting you too OP. It sounds absolutely horrendous, I'm so sorry.

Do you think that there may be benefit in bringing in someone else - Aunt / family friend that might be able to talk to / listen to your daughter? A third party that might be able to have conversations with her and help her see that her behaviour is possibly alienating people and potential friends. And can at least help her recognise the problem a bit more? Someone who has your trust? But not a 'professional'?

The reason I ask is that you sound very stressed about the situation and rightly so. And I have had something similar with my DD, although she is slightly younger. I know from investing so many hours talking through things with my DD that conversations can become very emotionally charged, very quickly. Because they are Mother Daughter conversations and there is an element of frustration on both sides probably. Maybe another adult (family friend) could more easily have calm, considered conversations that help your DD. Sometimes another 'voice' can help land the messages more easily. And it could also take the pressure off you a little, as it feels like you really have this on your shoulders.

@Momicrone

I think the school should be doing more to help resolve the situation. She needs just one person on her side and hopefully her behaviour will calm down.

School did sanction certain students who were involved especially with the social media side of things but it doesn't help her on the friendship side of things.

@GreySweater

I can see how this situation becomes all encompassing and is impacting you too OP. It sounds absolutely horrendous, I'm so sorry.

Do you think that there may be benefit in bringing in someone else - Aunt / family friend that might be able to talk to / listen to your daughter? A third party that might be able to have conversations with her and help her see that her behaviour is possibly alienating people and potential friends. And can at least help her recognise the problem a bit more? Someone who has your trust? But not a 'professional'?

The reason I ask is that you sound very stressed about the situation and rightly so. And I have had something similar with my DD, although she is slightly younger. I know from investing so many hours talking through things with my DD that conversations can become very emotionally charged, very quickly. Because they are Mother Daughter conversations and there is an element of frustration on both sides probably. Maybe another adult (family friend) could more easily have calm, considered conversations that help your DD. Sometimes another 'voice' can help land the messages more easily. And it could also take the pressure off you a little, as it feels like you really have this on your shoulders.

Thank you. Yes I am extremely stressed as I am at a loss as to what to do. You cannot force people to be friends.

I have been thinking about asking a family member to step in and discuss with her as she doesn't want to listen to any discussions I have with her about it.

Can you try to see this as a natural consequence? I mean, it sounds like she doesn't talk to people very kindly. So no wonder they don't want to hang out with her.

That can change. Kids are extremely forgiving, much more so than adults. I remember in our girls school lots of falling outs and making ups. Lots of shifts in friendship groups.

But she needs to learn the lesson first and your job is to shape her behaviour at home. Why is she allowed to talk to you poorly? What do you do when she gives you attitude?

It sounds like she's learning a good life lesson. And if you try to fix it for her you run the risk of her not learning it. Of course be there for her when she needs a listening ear or some tips for improving the situation. But don't allow her to talk badly to you or make a thousand excuses. Just reassure her that if she can shift her attitude, then friends will arise.

@DontLookBackInAnger1

Can you try to see this as a natural consequence? I mean, it sounds like she doesn't talk to people very kindly. So no wonder they don't want to hang out with her.

That can change. Kids are extremely forgiving, much more so than adults. I remember in our girls school lots of falling outs and making ups. Lots of shifts in friendship groups.

But she needs to learn the lesson first and your job is to shape her behaviour at home. Why is she allowed to talk to you poorly? What do you do when she gives you attitude?

It sounds like she's learning a good life lesson. And if you try to fix it for her you run the risk of her not learning it. Of course be there for her when she needs a listening ear or some tips for improving the situation. But don't allow her to talk badly to you or make a thousand excuses. Just reassure her that if she can shift her attitude, then friends will arise.

You have hit the nail on the head you really have. I do let her get away with speaking to me with an attitude too much I know I do.

I think a lot of it stems from my own teenage years, were I used to worry about people falling out with me etc, so I didn't want her to feel like that because I remember being constantly worried. I am seeking counselling for this as it seems it is a hard lesson to learn for her but I know I have a tendency to try and sweep in and 'save' her and it isn't doing her any favours.

OP.

How cruel of this group of girls to completely ostracise your daughter like that. You would think at least one of them would have the emotional intelligence and empathy to see the good in your daughter despite her more possible difficult personality traits, and give her friendship and support at a difficult time in her life.

It is cruel. School can be like a bear pit. They’re only 13, however. I’m afraid what you outline above will be beyond many adults and very unlikely to happen in yr 8, where it’s more like survival of the fittest. 13 yr olds are not likely to go out on a limb for someone they don’t even regard as a friend. Yes it is brutal, but I think people sometimes have unrealistically high expectations of teenagers, who are basically all trying to navigate a safe passage for themselves through choppy waters.

Did you discuss your dd’s behaviour and interactions with others with her subject teachers during the parents evening, op? Would be interesting to get their perspective.

Nobody deserves to be called names or ostracised.

part of growing up is acknowledging that you don't have to like everybody and not everybody is going to like you but yes, you do owe it to them to disguise that fact, and they in turn should not advertise it to you that you're not their favourite person.

At this point I wouldn't tell your daughter to be less this, more that.

Nobody's perfect. But they deserve to be allowed to be part of the group without being labelled and ostracised.

I'd change school and give her a fresh start.

Low self esteem, struggling with friendships etc are all ND flags.
Is she forgetful / disorganised / under achieving?

No she isn't forgetful or unorganised or under achieving. None of those things. Her recent parents evening was fantastic.

ND people can equally be the most organised and the highest achievers.

I do get the vibe OP isn't interested in the possibility of Autism, being autistic myself I may have picked that up wrong

OP at the very least have a read about girls and autism - it may be helpful, it may not, but worth a read anyway

She knows she's sitting at home alone because she was mean to others. At the end of the day this won't hurt her. It's the consequences of her actions. She'll just have to learn the hard way.

My kids have been assholes today. They'll be sitting in their rooms without video games/treats. Consequences. It isn't harmful.

It's curious you say you've allowed her to treat you poorly, speak at home with a bad attitude and that you sweep in to save her... So really these are the consequences of your actions too. If she has been allowed to speak to her own mother that way no wonder she thought it was ok to do in school. You've got to set boundaries and insist she do better - show her how to be better.

@Lurking9to5

Nobody deserves to be called names or ostracised.

part of growing up is acknowledging that you don't have to like everybody and not everybody is going to like you but yes, you do owe it to them to disguise that fact, and they in turn should not advertise it to you that you're not their favourite person.

At this point I wouldn't tell your daughter to be less this, more that.

Nobody's perfect. But they deserve to be allowed to be part of the group without being labelled and ostracised.

I'd change school and give her a fresh start.

It has been cruel and it has been brutal. She was left with no one. The feedback from school is that people are/have been saying things to her and they have been sanctioned for it. I am not getting any feedback that she is behaving out of turn at the moment, but I know what her attitude can be like at home with me and the way she speaks to me sometimes.

Like a PP said it might be a natural consequence but I am finding it hard to detach from it all and not get involved in it all trying to help her. People have already berated her at school saying your Mums got involved.

Oh boy, such an impossible situation. Who could detach from their child navigating this difficult situation. The school and its pupils and teachers have set you up to lose.

To avoid long term damage to her self esteem id insist to her that she doesnt deserve this. Nothing she said or did should have resulted in being ostracised.

My immediate reaction was 'this girl has self esteem issues'.
Being brazen, rude and cocky can be a defence mechanism to hid insecurities.
Then you said she won't go to class her friend isn't in- that's something else.

Do the school do social classes? ND children at my daughters school have extra sessions on socialising etc.

I would 100% look at why she’s struggling to fit in. But I also bet she’s getting her ‘defence’ in first. I did. It’s much easier to believe you are unlikeable for something you are choosing to do than something you are, ND or not.

I really feel for you, OP. Whether she behaves like this because of the fall-out, or her behaviour has caused the fall-out, I respect that you're prepared to at least entertain the fact that it might be the latter.

Social media/WhatsApp etc being what it is, I'd be a tiny bit worried that any 'reputation' might precede her to some extent BUT I rather think a move is a good idea, in any case. I don't think it can hurt, and may well help.

I think there's lots of good advice on here about potential ND etc but the thing that jumps out at me from your post is that you are taking on 'general feedback' that she is not nice.

First off, that's very unspecific and difficult to do anything about, but secondly why are you seeing it from others' perspectives and not hers? She doesn't need to hear from you that 'if you did this you'd be nice', she needs to hear that she is a good person and that you love her. That doesn't mean you accept bad behaviour of course but you can deal with that as you witness it, and specifically. I think that with the best and most loving intentions you are telling her she is not a good person by continually telling her what she needs to do to be better.

In your shoes I'd stop criticising all together (apart from dealing with specific rudeness/bad behaviour) and do some heavy handed love bombing for a while. This period of her life will be over soon enough and you can't live it for her, but you can make sure she knows your are her biggest fan even if she IS a bit horrible sometimes.

It’s great that you can see how your own past is influencing the way you react, maybe not in the best way.

I think your dd needs counselling too. Not because what you are telling her isn’t right but because she won’t hear it from mum but she will hear it from someone completely detached from her life iyswim.

There is no magical remedy to change your daughters reputation of being a bit mean and bitchy, this behaviour might be due to the peer pressure of fitting in or it might be hormonal.

It does sound a bit like it all was good as long as she wasn’t the one being ostracised in the group, but like everything in life, things look different when you start getting a dose of the medicine that your friendship group have been dishing out to others.

How was she at home before all this started? Do you have any other DC and if so how was/is her behaviour towards them?

Even though this sounds harsh, I think she just needs to approach this face on with her head up and show her peers that she is not this person she is being made out to be and even if she is, she has to show that she can/has changed.

Kids are fickle to say the least, if your daughter can stop reacting to a bunch of bitchy ex-friends she in turn will stop giving them any power over her well-being and will hopefully be able to move on from this and form new friendships.

It is good that she is speaking to the school counsellor but go with your gut instincts if you think she needs more help.

@ThePlantsitter

I think there's lots of good advice on here about potential ND etc but the thing that jumps out at me from your post is that you are taking on 'general feedback' that she is not nice.

First off, that's very unspecific and difficult to do anything about, but secondly why are you seeing it from others' perspectives and not hers? She doesn't need to hear from you that 'if you did this you'd be nice', she needs to hear that she is a good person and that you love her. That doesn't mean you accept bad behaviour of course but you can deal with that as you witness it, and specifically. I think that with the best and most loving intentions you are telling her she is not a good person by continually telling her what she needs to do to be better.

In your shoes I'd stop criticising all together (apart from dealing with specific rudeness/bad behaviour) and do some heavy handed love bombing for a while. This period of her life will be over soon enough and you can't live it for her, but you can make sure she knows your are her biggest fan even if she IS a bit horrible sometimes.

This.

In the kindest possible way op, your dd is at her lowest ebb and you are essentially telling her that it’s her fault. She may be making mistakes but she needs to know that she’s still loved. As it is I think she likely feels that even her own dm doesn’t like her very much.

@ThePlantsitter

I think there's lots of good advice on here about potential ND etc but the thing that jumps out at me from your post is that you are taking on 'general feedback' that she is not nice.

First off, that's very unspecific and difficult to do anything about, but secondly why are you seeing it from others' perspectives and not hers? She doesn't need to hear from you that 'if you did this you'd be nice', she needs to hear that she is a good person and that you love her. That doesn't mean you accept bad behaviour of course but you can deal with that as you witness it, and specifically. I think that with the best and most loving intentions you are telling her she is not a good person by continually telling her what she needs to do to be better.

In your shoes I'd stop criticising all together (apart from dealing with specific rudeness/bad behaviour) and do some heavy handed love bombing for a while. This period of her life will be over soon enough and you can't live it for her, but you can make sure she knows your are her biggest fan even if she IS a bit horrible sometimes.

I agree with all of this to a certain point, but at the same time ignoring what an entire peer group are saying is burying your head in the sand.

Unfortunately actions always have consequences, and regardless of how DD had behave clearly OP wants to help DD and in a way that she can learn from, whilst still being loving and supportive.

I’m just speculating, it is ‘likely’ that OPs daughter has not been particularly nice about certain people and maybe she has taken it a bit far. Her age is a factor, at this age they see don’t see bullying, they see ‘banter’. No good will come out of love bombing or telling DD was a wonderful person she is IF she had behaved badly.

I disagree. I'm sure the OP's daughter did behave horribly tbh. That doesn't mean she's undeserving of her mum's unconditional affection and that doesn't mean condoning the behaviour. We're all horrible sometimes.

@LuaDipa

No I am telling her everyday. She is a kind loving person and I love her with all my heart as do all her family and the only advice I give her is because I want her to be happy and not hurt.

Please dont mistake some quick responses that I'm not showing her how much shes loved because I am but I also cannot ignore if multiple people are saying shes nasty etc!

[quote MrsDWashington]@LuaDipa

No I am telling her everyday. She is a kind loving person and I love her with all my heart as do all her family and the only advice I give her is because I want her to be happy and not hurt.

Please dont mistake some quick responses that I'm not showing her how much shes loved because I am but I also cannot ignore if multiple people are saying shes nasty etc! [/quote]
I’m sure you are, and it’s clear that you do love her as you wouldn’t be seeking advice if you didn’t. I just feel that if your dd is very sensitive, your well advice, however well intended, could come across as criticism and it’s important that your dd knows that you are on her side no matter what. Other people are clearly happy discuss her failings with her, she doesn’t need it from you too. She needs unconditional love and support at the minute, not advice, however well meaning.