Do you still celebrate your Irish roots, even if you're not Irish

[Stressedout65]

One of my paternal great grandfathers was Irish & I had an Irish surname until I got married. I even have a piece of clothing made from the Irish family tartan with the family name coat of arms emblazoned on it. I wanted to wear it to work today as we had the option of dressing for St Patricks Day (in England). I chickened out as it felt false & attention seeking. An Irish colleague said I should have worn it if I wanted to as it's part of my Irish roots & heritage. I feel my Irish roots are now so diluted it didn't feel right. How far back do you celebrate your roots & heritage if they're different to what you actually are now?
I do feel drawn to Ireland, it's culture & music. I don't know if this "connection" I feel is exaggerated because I lost my dad a year ago

@DownNative thanks for your explanation. I'm not going to piss on anyone's potatoes but when you are the British Catholic child of a mixed Irish- British/English marriage sometimes Irish people aren't as welcoming as @TheKeatingFive is as lucky enough to recall from her experience.

My father was a London Catholic of direct Irish descent with family still living in Ireland My mother was a London CofE (nominal) of English descent.

They loved each other and loved us and no one came between them though some tried - they were all from my dad's side I'm sorry to say. But I had a happy childhood and could not have wished for better parents or those people from my dad's side who didn't agree with any nastiness. But to paraphrase Kermit, it's not easy being half green.

when you are the British Catholic child of a mixed Irish- British/English marriage sometimes Irish people aren't as welcoming as @TheKeatingFive is as lucky enough to recall from her experience.

I don't recall commenting on that topic at all on this thread. My point has been about how Irish people view those enthusiastic about Ireland/paddys day.

The fact that some people are enthusiastic about Ireland and Irishness doesn't mean that everyone is.

@TheKeatingFive

But it was Diageo who did all the branding we see today. They own the brand today.

No. Diageo only took over Guinness in 1997. It was well established by then.

No, I meant that Guinness didn't always brand itself in the way we see today. Early on, it was part of the British Empire's trade routes which is how it became global. This certainly reflects Arthur Guinness' political viewpoints.

Indeed, Guinness was playing it down in the 1970s and in the 1980s were considering rebranding as an English brand which they had publicity material ready for. They'd had their base in London since 1932, I think.

The Guinness family were vehemently anti-PIRA and felt it was hurting their brand.

With the merger that became Diageo in 1997, the Good Friday Agreement made it possible once more for Guinness to heavily brand itself as we see today.

No, I meant that Guinness didn't always brand itself in the way we see today. Early on, it was part of the British Empire's trade routes which is how it became global.

Sure. My point is that the Irish connection was being leant into long before Diageo bought the brand.

The 'Glorious Guinness girls' who I think were Arthur's daughters all had extensive estates in Ireland btw where they spent a lot of time. Lugalla in Wicklow is one, there's another in Kildare. So the family's connections with Ireland were also long established.

Both my grandfathers were Irish and my name (first and last, I kept my maiden name) is quite Irish sounding. Like, so much that it's borderline a stereotype, and I've had a number of jokes about it over the years, usually on St Patrick's Day but also when crossing the border into Ireland. I'm a dual national of the USA and UK.

I digress. I wore a dark green dress to work yesterday. One of my colleagues (originally from Syria) fully dressed in green, hijab and everything. It was splendid and I complimented her on her choices.

Otherwise, it's been science week at our school so we've had other things on our minds. I don't even think anyone mentioned the day.

It's all in fun isn't it? I don't consider myself Irish, but my family has stories and a small connection to the country. I wouldn't claim anything beyond what people obviously notice from my name.

[quote limitedperiodonly]**@DownNative* thanks for your explanation. I'm not going to piss on anyone's potatoes but when you are the British Catholic child of a mixed Irish- British/English marriage sometimes Irish people aren't as welcoming as @TheKeatingFive* is as lucky enough to recall from her experience.

My father was a London Catholic of direct Irish descent with family still living in Ireland My mother was a London CofE (nominal) of English descent.

They loved each other and loved us and no one came between them though some tried - they were all from my dad's side I'm sorry to say. But I had a happy childhood and could not have wished for better parents or those people from my dad's side who didn't agree with any nastiness. But to paraphrase Kermit, it's not easy being half green.[/quote]
I'm the English born child of a Catholic from the south and a Presbyterian from the north. Half green half orange. Never had any issues from either side of immediate family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins) the orange side were a bit challenging but it was 2nd cousins so didn't worry me much.

@TheKeatingFive

No, I meant that Guinness didn't always brand itself in the way we see today. Early on, it was part of the British Empire's trade routes which is how it became global.

Sure. My point is that the Irish connection was being leant into long before Diageo bought the brand.

My father was an Irish publican in a big English city. I well remember the Irish publicans all being taken to Dublin for a tour of the Guinness brewery, it would have been late 1950s I think. I don't know if any English publicans went as we lived in a bit of an Irish bubble so everyone I knew who went was Irish.

Same with Cheltenham, the Irish publicans went by coach but I do remember our parish priest went with them.

My dm is Irish, df is English, I was born in England. I have both UK and Irish passports, as does ds. I don't celebrate St Patrick's day, and I cannot bear the grabbing of very very weak straws some people do when they've got a great great great uncle, twice removed who was Irish, so they must fake the accent, wear a stupid hat and get drunk on Guiness on March 17th. Absolutely ridiculous. Especially when they don't seem to give a shit about those 'roots' for the rest of the year or have any knowledge about the country or its history otherwise.

@debwong

How come there are no English-Americans or Welsh-Americans?

Aren't they WASPs (white anglo saxon protestants I think)

No offence but why are some people so desperate to claim themselves as Irish anyway?

[quote 2Gen]@ancientgran- And I think none of us begrudged a penny of what was sent back here either! I certainly didn't, I loved my GPs, especially my mother's mother! I still miss her to this day![/quote]
Oh no, sending money home or to the church was something people were proud to do in my experience.

I remember a friend who had shared the inheritance of the family farm, her and her brother would send money home to the brother who kept the farm going, not easy in the 50s. She used to proudly say she was going home in the summer to see the cows she'd bought or the new tractor or whatever.

@myislandhome

No offence but why are some people so desperate to claim themselves as Irish anyway?

Is anyone desperate? Some of us are Irish even if we weren't born there. I could show you my passport if you find that hard to accept.

If anyone questioned our nationality my granny would say, "Jesus was born in a stable but he wasn't a horse." So as far as she was concerned the fact we were born in England didn't change what we were.

I am really referring to the odd American tradition of branding oneself Irish.

@TheKeatingFive

No, I meant that Guinness didn't always brand itself in the way we see today. Early on, it was part of the British Empire's trade routes which is how it became global.

Sure. My point is that the Irish connection was being leant into long before Diageo bought the brand.

My point is that Guinness didn't always lean into that side of heritage. It's why Nigerians usually view it as theirs:

“I’ve talked to Nigerians who think of Guinness as their national beer. They wonder why Guinness is sold in Ireland. You can talk to Nigerians in Lagos who will tell you as many stories about their perfect pint as an Irishman will.”

• Historian Bill Yenne even wrote in his book‘Guinness: The 250 year quest for the perfect pint’.

Guinness traded on the perceived properties of the beverage. In Europe, the slogan was "Guinness gives you strength". In Africa, it was "Guinness gives you power".

So, Guinness wasn't very consistent in promoting itself as an Irish beverage. They certainly saw it as a major drawback at times, especially during the Troubles.

[quote limitedperiodonly]**@DownNative* thanks for your explanation. I'm not going to piss on anyone's potatoes but when you are the British Catholic child of a mixed Irish- British/English marriage sometimes Irish people aren't as welcoming as @TheKeatingFive* is as lucky enough to recall from her experience.

My father was a London Catholic of direct Irish descent with family still living in Ireland My mother was a London CofE (nominal) of English descent.

They loved each other and loved us and no one came between them though some tried - they were all from my dad's side I'm sorry to say. But I had a happy childhood and could not have wished for better parents or those people from my dad's side who didn't agree with any nastiness. But to paraphrase Kermit, it's not easy being half green.[/quote]
I get what you mean. Others here may be coming at it from a southern perspective or a GB one. A very different experience, indeed.

It's true that there's a significant proportion of people in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland with anglophobic tendencies. This extends to some who are clearly English yet are anglophobic on account of some claimed Irish ancestry.

It is odd. It does exist. Unfortunately, you experienced that with your father's relatives who I assume still live in the Republic of Ireland. You're correct that not all those in the ROI or NI are welcoming, especially to English people.

Sounds like your paternal family are Republicans as they blame the English for literally everything as John Hume said of them.

Sorry to hear that.

It’s a global village these days. I’m British (English) and DH is French. The kids hold dual nationality but were born in Switzerland and have only ever lived here. They speak French with Swiss accents and identify with all 3 countries. We celebrate St. George’s day, Bastille day and Swiss National day.

My grandma’s family were Irish and came over to Birmingham from Ireland, like many others did. There’s a sizeable Irish population in Brum and the St. Patrick’s day celebrations in the city are always great - I miss them now I live abroad ☘️

I really dislike this idea of policing who should and shouldn’t be allowed to participate in festivities and celebrations, particularly as it’s overwhelmingly done in good faith and a spirit of community. It’s nasty and divisive.

How about Boris Johnson claiming to be British. He wasn't born here, how dare he pretend he's British. He really needs to get back to New York.

@ancientgran

How about Boris Johnson claiming to be British. He wasn't born here, how dare he pretend he's British. He really needs to get back to New York.

Don't be ridiculous. Boris' parents registered his birth with the British Consulate which officially makes him British.

The children of all Armed Forces personnel born outside the UK are also registered with the British Consulate too. Army ones are called Pads Brats and are sometimes born in British Military Hospitals outside the UK which is UK sovereign territory.

@debwong

How come there are no English-Americans or Welsh-Americans?

Perhaps they should make more noise because while most Americans have heard of Britain and think that equals being English, Wales loses out.

This is a bit niche but I always remember it.

Catherine Zeta Jones, who is proudly Welsh but may be a naturalised US citizen now, had a big part in the film Traffic about 20 years ago.

Even if I didn't know who she was from The Darling Buds Of May she had a slight but clearly Welsh accent to my English ears.

There's a scene where she says she's European which is weird because Europe is a big place and most Europeans would state their nationality rather than continent of birth. I did some work on the release on the film and people explained she couldn't do a convincing US accent or Mexican one (that's where her character's husband is from) or an Italian one (one set of her real life grandparents are Italian and she has their colouring).

Someone involved in the film explained to me that to most Americans she would sound English but she didn't look it (because all us English people look the same ). They also explained that most Americans wouldn't know Wales existed even though Anthony Hopkins had won an Oscar by then. But apparently her accent was so weird to American ears they had to explain it away in this clunky scene.

Traffic is a great film and Catherine Zeta Jones is one of many talented actors in it but that's my stand out memory of it - that American audiences were judged by American filmmakers not to be able to compute her accent. At least they didn't subtitle her like with everyone in Trainspotting.

PS she shouted Oggy! Oggy! Oggy! while accepting an award once. That must have confused the hell out of people.

I’ve got a right mixture going on My maternal grandparents are Polish immigrants. My paternal grandmother is Scottish on her mum’s side and Norwegian on her dad’s side. Paternal grandfather was English on both sides as far back as we managed to go through Ancestry.
I identify most with my Polish side, and do celebrate most holidays/traditions with my own DCs as that was always a part of my life growing up. As for the English, Scottish and Norwegian, I have no idea about any Norwegian holidays/traditions and couldn’t tell you when St George’s or St Andrews day is off the top of my head

Much as it hurts we British have to accept Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson as one of ours.

@myislandhome

No offence but why are some people so desperate to claim themselves as Irish anyway?

Because everyone likes the Irish and some people will do anything to be popular.

@DownNative

As an Ulster Catholic, I would say anyone can essentially celebrate what they like. My family in Northern Ireland growing up never celebrated St Patrick's Day and still don't.

Patrick wasn't even Irish by any means and he was from Roman Britain which he referred to as "my country". Roman Britain is where he grew up and where his family lived, bit noone knows if that was in England, Scotland or Wales. You could mark St Patrick's Day from that angle anyway. The day IS supposed to be about Patrick's death.

Patrick's colour was always traditionally blue and not green. The green came in the late 19th Century in the United States parades in relation to independence. Hence, I wear blue on 17th March and make things that relates to Northern Ireland only.

But the earliest St Patrick's Day parades was organised by Irish Protestants in the US and these were NOT like the later green tinged stuff from the US. It didn’t even come to the Island of Ireland until 1931 and it wasn't until the 1980s when it became a big thing. Before that, it was a religious day for Catholics and Protestants.

Corned Beef and Cabbage isn't even an Irish thing. Irish immigrants took it from Jewish immigrants.

Patrick wasn't the first to bring Christianity to the island of Ireland either and there's no evidence he taught the Trinity via a three leaf clover.

Leprechauns were always male and not particularly good ones. They wear red jackets in the actual myths....not green ones. As mentioned before, green came in later for political reasons in the United States first before spreading over.

You're wrong about it not being a big thing till the 1980s, I grew up in Dublin in the 1970s and the annual St Patricks day parade in the city was a Huge event that we all went to.