To not forgive and forget aibu

[Yumyumcakes]

Name change as this is outing but 4 friends a,b,c and myself. Friend a younger early mid 20s unmarried and child free, b married 3 children c married 2 children and myself married 2 children.

Friend bs child is the oldest, then friend c then mine. During her pregnancy with child, friend c made a lot of comments to b that a and I were jealous of her, her husband and her pregnancy. Neither of us were ttc, I’d made the mistake of telling my friends I suffer from endometriosis (mildly) luckily so ttc might be hard. When baby was born, a and I spent hundreds on clothes and bits, you know how it is. It then came out that her husband accused us of jinxing them with our jealousy as she had a rough delivery and baby was jaundiced. She then told b that she needed time away from us as the jealousy was too much and wouldn’t show pictures of the baby on social media because we’d get jealous and b was under clear instructions not to forward any photos she sent her. To be crystal clear I was not ttc this entire time, in fact far from it as I’d just started a new job and a had just left an abusive relationship.

But the belief I was jealous still persisted, we closed on houses within weeks of each other (unbeknownst to me as we’d stopped speaking) but this was framed as jealousy and copying as was conceiving dc2. I’d have thought c just doesn’t like me and a much but now she’s desperately trying to meet up And I just don’t much fancy it. My suspicion behind the reason is I have 2 kids now too so won’t be jealous of her kids, but I hate this line of thinking. I found that whole mentality incredibly juvenile, her husband had made some v unpleasant comments about my ‘cursing them’ and I asked her about it and she just brushed it off as him being silly so if she felt some sort of way she’s had chance to say. I get people change and grow up as years have gone by but equally I don’t think I want to be friends with someone who thinks people are jealous of them. I love to see my friends happy however that is.

Plus even though I wasn’t ttc I dislike the whole othering mentality of someone struggling with fertility like they are so hateful that they can’t possibly be happy for you to the extent they’d jinx it for you.

I’ve probably explained this terribly but
Yabu- give the friendship another chance
Yanbu- I wouldn’t really want to rekindle that friendship either

@Yumyumcakes, your comment about “childfree’ not being a ‘jibe’ because the childfree friend is younger and has a fantastic job is quite strange — why would calling someone childfree be a ‘jibe’ in any circumstances? — and makes me wonder if you yourself have complex feelings about having or not having children that contributed to the development of this strange jealousy/evil eye dynamic back whenever this was.

Either way, no, I wouldn’t rekindle the friendship. It would end up in a situation where you would have to show up at meetings in a ballgown and diamonds (in case she was better dressed and you made her tear her new dress by giving her the jealous evil eye) or to dread her child not making the football team/conquering the world at SATS/ getting her Guide nature badge because clearly you’d caused it.

I’d probably enjoy feeling so powerful in someone else’s imagination and laugh about it, while keeping well out of their way.

Frankly B hasn't been much of friend wither because if C was spouting this nonsense to her then B could have just told C she was being ridiculous at the time she was saying it.

If you want to be dragged into unnecessary drama then go for it but I would be another saying steer well clear.

IME those who accuse others of jealousy are the ones who are jealous and are trying to flip it to make themselves feel better. Take my sister. She's been jealous of me since the day I was born and 50 years later still is. Yet she tells people I'm jealous of her, goes out of her way to try to make me jealous, and has made a couple of large life decisions seemingly with the aim of doing so (analysis of a couple of disinterested parties who pointed it out to me). Yet I couldn't give a shit and it irks her greatly, and probably adds to her jealousy of me.

Did C actually want children? I suspect that, at some level, she was regretting giving up her child-free life (maybe under pressure from her husband) and so she's tried to flip it on to you and A. I'd try not to take it to heart, laugh about it when you can, and detach as much as you can. Your life is no doubt better without her in it.

Totally nuts. Get yourself away from all that pointless drama

Friend c sounds like a stirrer.
The husband who thinks you’re cursing people randomly is batshit.
The whole situation sounds exhausting and the negatives far outweigh any benefits.
Walk away and find new friends.

@ManateeFair

C is mad as a jar of wasps and so is her husband. Absolutely mental. Run a mile.

This! Flee! Do not let them back into your life!

Was she like this before she met her husband?

[quote Curtilage]@Yumyumcakes, your comment about “childfree’ not being a ‘jibe’ because the childfree friend is younger and has a fantastic job is quite strange — why would calling someone childfree be a ‘jibe’ in any circumstances? — and makes me wonder if you yourself have complex feelings about having or not having children that contributed to the development of this strange jealousy/evil eye dynamic back whenever this was.

Either way, no, I wouldn’t rekindle the friendship. It would end up in a situation where you would have to show up at meetings in a ballgown and diamonds (in case she was better dressed and you made her tear her new dress by giving her the jealous evil eye) or to dread her child not making the football team/conquering the world at SATS/ getting her Guide nature badge because clearly you’d caused it.

I’d probably enjoy feeling so powerful in someone else’s imagination and laugh about it, while keeping well out of their way.[/quote]
I put that in because of the context of the thread which is literally about jibes towards the child free woman and a has pulled back a lot, understandably so, for a few reasons, being the ‘only’ child free one being one of them, and the batcrap accusations another. also because it’s MN. I’m not sure what sort of complex feelings I could have, as I wasn’t ttc at the time. Although I did have mild endo and a job with a crappy maternity policy (since moved on to pastures greener) so make of that what you will

They sound bonkers! What adult talks about 'jinxing' people like it's the playground in Year 2?!

TBH @ElegantlyTouched you might be onto something, as prior to her conception, her husband was publicly putting a lot of pressure on her to conceive, even threatening to divorce her over it, but now she has she takes a lot of pride in being mum of the year, the v v judgy kind, you know c-section = depriving child of microbiome, formula= poison, raw dairy, Co-sleeping anything else is depriving your child of love, Montessori only, anything else is lazy sort of parent. That in itself is exhausting

@StringFellow

Was she like this before she met her husband?

Only ever known her with him, but must be on some level because if my husband said this sort of stuff to me, I’d be like ‘are you ok in the head? Let’s pop to the des’

YANBU.

I dislike, and would soon grow apart from, anybody who claims to know what I'm thinking/feeling in the absence of any evidence of that from me. But this particular set of accusations are even worse, they're actively nasty. I wouldn't want to be friends with C at all. I would tell B that I was happy to see her alone but just didn't want to hang out with C any more after the way she behaved. You might or might not lose B's friendship or at least it might become less close, but tbh I wouldn't worry about that too much if she can't see why hanging out with C is a problem for you.

I like the sound of A and hope you can still have some kind of relationship even though your lives are at different stages. It could be refreshing for you to get together with someone who doesn't have all the demands of parenthood to deal with, and she may also be reassured to see that you still enjoy her company, especially after the hurtful things C said. She needs to know that not all parents are weird towards non-parents.

I would question the role of friend B in all of this. It seems she played both sides, possibly enjoying her role as intermediary? Seems like the toxic friend C is aware of events in your life. How? Is Friend B telling her?

I’m so tired of women treating each other like this. Life is too short!

She sounds like one of those people who is always in competition with other women around her and needs to be winning. Such miserable, arrogant people.

@LaurenKelsey

I would question the role of friend B in all of this. It seems she played both sides, possibly enjoying her role as intermediary? Seems like the toxic friend C is aware of events in your life. How? Is Friend B telling her?

I’m so tired of women treating each other like this. Life is too short!

Tbh @LaurenKelsey I did feel a lot of pity and ‘don’t worry you’ll conceive eventually’ coming from b when I wasn’t even trying and actually a child at that moment in time (renting a one bed flat, in the job from hell with 0 benefits) would have been quite disastrous. I’d always say when brought up that I wasn’t in a position to have kids right now but it kept on happening, this probably fuelled the ‘jealousy thing’. Out of all of them, I’d been with my husband the longest prior to having children, a whopping 2.5 years before conceiving, imagine that. Again I’m sure this fed into it.

I think C got some life updates from asking B and then social media and C’s husband has mutual friends with mine so was a host of things.

Bs noticed now that C has pulled back from her and is questioning if this is because she’d always said she wanted a 4th child but it’s not happened so the ‘jealousy’ thing again around conception and the fact that Cs children are both boys and Bs are all girls, again ‘jealously’. As there was quite a big emphasis put on the fact that C’s first born was a boy, to the extent she knew the gender and then lied to us saying she wasn’t going to find out, again for the jealousy thing. There were a few comments about having a male child too on the first try … also weird. Yet in this time C has reached out to me more, I’ve one of each (boy then girl).

It’s all very weird and I’m too old for this crap

@Yumyumcakes

Nope no apology offered, but she doesn’t know that I know that the jealousy things have actually been said. As far as she knows it’s just vague sort of comments that make you go huh? And a very weird tirade from her husband that was insinuating a and I were so jealous we put the evil eye on them rather than a flat out accusation.

"During her pregnancy with child, friend c made a lot of comments to b that a and I were jealous of her, her husband and her pregnancy."

So maybe I'm reading this wrong, but between the 'C made the comments to B' and 'C doesn't know that I know about the jealousy things' - C has never actually accused you to your face of jealousy?

So how do you know she made these comments? My thinking is that if she's offered no apology, it might be because she hasn't done anything to apologise for. That's as valid as her not knowing B snitched. B playing mindgames with you and A is as plausible as C having actually accused you and A of jealousy (but only saying it to B,not you and A).

The whole thing is insane. I don't think being Muslim is C's husband's problem, I think being a dickhead is his problem. You went round their home with gifts for them and baby and got a "tirade" off C's husband for a made up thing "jinxing" the baby/birth? Fuck that shit.

C's husband isn't your friend. If C backs him up, as she will because he's her husband, she's not your friend either.

B isn't your friend or she wouldn't be wanting you to brush this shit off like it doesn't/didn't matter and wouldn't have been making pity comments at you at the time where none was needed either. Reckon B is keen for you to get over it because she believes C about you supposedly being jealous so thinks you're the issue not C, hence why she was making those pity comments in the first place. B could even have been the one to start and fuel the jealousy rumours for all you know.

So you're left with A? Is she your friend or has she been involved in this batshittery towards you too? Whatever, the group hugs are a thing of the past!

There’s been things along the way, it’s mainly been comments.

B’s youngest was born (at this time a, c and I all childless). Visited b, brought clothes etc. Ces husband came, lots of comments were made by him about how his wife needed to give him a child soon or he would leave her. He asked me about how my husband felt that i hadn’t given him a child, I said we weren’t ready ( or words to that effect) he made some comment about anyone married longer than 18 months and now pregnant was infertile and that’s why C needed to get pregnant stat.
When she did fall pregnant, she told B but hid it from A and I until 6+ months, despite looking rotund. It was visually obvious but a and I were hesitant about asking just in case and we brought it up to B who spilled the beans that she was and that B had known for a while.
There were a few comments as well, here and there no flat out accusations as such but comments that made you go huh?
She pretended to not know the sex of the baby just in case anyone put the evil eye on her (eye roll) she later said this to us.

When he was born, she wouldn’t send a picture of what he looked like in the group chat just the wrist band saying he was born. She sent b a pic under explicit instructions not to share it with us (bs phone was on the table and the message popped up and we saw)
After he was born (2 months or so) we brought food, clothes, gifts (as I said above) and her husband was there and he went on some weird pointed tirade about all the things that have gone wrong post birth and how it sounds like it’s down to some super jealous person putting the evil eye on them… this was complete with a lot of raised eyebrows and pointed looks. A and I walked out, both looked at each other and said ‘that was about us wasnt it?’.
Met again at 3/4 months and she only wanted to talk about her baby, which to an extent I get because it’s all new and lovely but not to the extent of refusing to engage in other convo. a for instance had just left an abusive partner so naturally some of the convo was about that. She then told B she couldn’t meet with a and I because we didn’t understand what it is to be a mother. At this point because c’s behaviour was so weird (we weren’t allowed to touch or hold her baby, which whatever but it’s odd when you’re friends) I asked B if she was ok, wondered if it was a bit of PNA and that’s when it came out
Mutual friend of hubby saw c’s husband out and about and as they are mutual friends, we came up and c’s husband said ‘ oh yeah funny how yumyum bought a house and had a second baby straight after we did…’ words to that effect.

Bs a bit fairy’s and unicorns, wants everything to be perfect and everyone to get along. She’s not the mindgames kind of person tbh

@BlueSummerBaby oh god yeah nothing to do with being Muslim and everything to do with him not being a nice person.

I don’t know if B thought I was jealous but she definitely was quite pitying about not having a child at that moment In time, due to the length of time I’d be married. I wasn’t even 30 at the time either so not what you’d call ‘advanced maternal age’

B wants things to be her version of perfect, she's not so bothered about how you feel or what "perfect" looks like for you, is she?

C's relationship sounds abusive to me, so I'm not surprised she didn't want to talk about A's abusive relationship ending. Could have touched a nerve and made C feel very uncomfortable, taking her thoughts in a direction she doesn't want to look at.

C's husband is definitely rude, may be bat-shit, or may be being awful to people without being so obviously direct his wife could 100% call him out on it with no uncertainty could be part of isolating her from others. Who knows? You don't have to tolerate it though.

I'm not surprised C is all about motherhood and being what she thinks of as "a perfect mum" to the exclusion of all else, it would seem to be her only value in the eyes of her husband. If he's that shitty towards her in public as to threaten to divorce her if she fails to conceive in his timeframe, you can bet what he says in private is ten times worse.

She's the jealous one imho , if l were you l would block her on SM she probably wants to gloat and boast

Forget all the rest, I couldn’t hang out with someone that was going on about the evil eye all the time. I’d be laughing too hard.

Just move on from both B and C. They both seem to be looking for drama. If it’s not this issue, it’ll be a different one in the future.

Tbh I'm not sure why you are gave the last lot of lengthy info. So much easier to block, ignore and move on from these idiots and their dramas.
There's plenty of nice, decent people out there to be friends with.